Mojo, I guess the way I pursue a man is to look for ways that I can be his soulmate... not in a way that falsifies who I am... but I see something he wants or wants to be and I get that for him or encourage him to get that for himself. So I guess I want a man to see into my soul, too, and honor what he sees there.
BTW the wonderful lover I had for years that I sometimes refer to was a 7.
Mojo, I guess the way I pursue a man is to look for ways that I can be his soulmate... not in a way that falsifies who I am... but I see something he wants or wants to be and I get that for him or encourage him to get that for himself.
From what I know of your R, it sound like this is exactly what you have. You have filled his needs and he is quite happy with you.
So I guess I want a man to see into my soul, too, and honor what he sees there.
This is the part you have not pursued. There is an aspect of entitlement to this way of thinking. Assuming that a dysfunctional person like your bf has the insight and compassion to do this, and should be doing it, may be what is disappointing you. Feeling that you have no control over this and are at his whims (whether he decides to give this to you or not) may be creating resentment in you. Unless you can wrestle it out of him, why would he need to volunteer it? After all, he is happy (as happy as he knows how to be).
I do think he has this innate ability within him. He seems like a very caring person. But the connection of these actions to his emotions seems to be buried deep under his defenses. I also wonder whether those very defenses and his conditioning at the hands of his mom are what “make” him do the caring things he does.
There are times you just want to be appreciated. I remember sitting down with my H and wanting some acknowledgement of all the work I was doing to improve our marriage, and his response was, "Well, you are doing this for yourself." He knew what I needed to hear---he just wasn't at a place to supply it. Sometimes I don't understand why I have chosen such a challenge...then I remember, oh yeah, Journey, you have intimacy issues.
I'd like to get to a place where I am able to drop expectations, do the right thing, and be that self-validating strong person. So my H doesn't feel so deeply about certain things? Well, tough nuggies on me. Appreciate what I do have. Give what he needs more. Be patient.
Quote: Mojo, I guess the way I pursue a man is to look for ways that I can be his soulmate... not in a way that falsifies who I am... but I see something he wants or wants to be and I get that for him or encourage him to get that for himself. So I guess I want a man to see into my soul, too, and honor what he sees there.
Here's the confusing thing. What you write here and in your other post on the topic sounds very appealing to me. I have the thought "Wow, that's really nice. That's how I should behave in a relationship (or at least in my relationship with my Type 4 husband)" but I just don't or can't or something. I think this is because what you describe isn't really what I want in a relationship from somebody else either. If somebody was hotly pursuing me in this manner it would make me feel kind of like the charity case being pursued by the social worker. It would mess with my sense of independence. I'm not slamming you here. I can see how my own "wet-nurse bouncing the baby on her knee" style pursuit definitely has a downside too.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I think you're right about bf, cobra. And as an AOS guy, his AOS should be enough for me.
I am NOT saying his AOS should be enough for you. I am just saying that you got what you asked for. So ask for more, feel that you truly deserve more, lead the way to giving that which you request.
Lil, you know better than anyone here that all his stuff is just a defense. But like I am saying to Heather, be prepared to accept what you ask for. If you are not comfortable asking for intimacy, being vulnerable, feeling and expressing a certain degree of entitlement to being loved, then he is going to have a hard time putting that forth, don’t you think? Especially for someone with his fears.
This is a tough nut to crack, and in some ways you face the very same dilemma I face. Your methods may be better, more civil, more functional than mine, but I see our objectives and the obstacles we face as the same.
I think this is because what you describe isn't really what I want in a relationship from somebody else either. If somebody was hotly pursuing me in this manner it would make me feel kind of like the charity case being pursued by the social worker. It would mess with my sense of independence.
You actually amaze me in the way you have turned around your sitch. You have been able to effectively put forth enough compassion and honesty toward your H that he has responded as you wanted.
But I see in your comment a theme that is underlying many of your posts lately. What I feels is still a lack of self esteem. I totally understand this. But as you do think to improve yourself and your M, I think you need to realize that you deserve to be happy, to be admired, respected and loved. YOU deserve this. You are giving respect to others, but for this to truly feel like a valued gift to them, they must know that you respect yourself. If not, they feel like it is “sucking up.” In fact the higher your self esteem (without being arrogant of course), the more valuable your respect becomes to others. You are asking you H to grow up, be a man, love himself, assert himself, and give you security. Now know that you are worth it to do your part.
Quote: But I see in your comment a theme that is underlying many of your posts lately. What I feels is still a lack of self esteem. I totally understand this. But as you do think to improve yourself and your M, I think you need to realize that you deserve to be happy, to be admired, respected and loved. YOU deserve this. You are giving respect to others, but for this to truly feel like a valued gift to them, they must know that you respect yourself. If not, they feel like it is “sucking up.” In fact the higher your self esteem (without being arrogant of course), the more valuable your respect becomes to others. You are asking you H to grow up, be a man, love himself, assert himself, and give you security. Now know that you are worth it to do your part.
I understand what you are saying. It's true that I often feel like Eliza Doolittle in my relationship with my critical Type 4 H. I know that there is something loving about his desire to "improve" me and something that seems like low self-esteem in my resistance to being "improved". I think the reason why the tables have flipped to some extent in my relationship is that I've just about finally reached that point where I really do feel like I'm "good enough" and am no longer in need of improvement. The fact that my H has resorted to "picking on me" about thoroughly minor matters is a reflection of this. We've been having some very odd interactions lately. For instance, last night he started gently stroking my eyebrow while commenting on the fact that it looked like I had over-plucked them. This provoked almost no emotional reaction from me. I just nodded like a sleepy baby and said that he was probably right. IMO it becomes somewhat ridiculous to give myself messages like "I should love myself enough to do a better job plucking my eyebrows." or "I'm feeling great about myself today because my eyebrows look fantastic!". I could probably come up with a list of over 1000 things I could do that would boost my self-esteem more than perfecting my brows.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Looks like this thread is being put to good use. I just thought I would address the comments about fears I might have of H finding a true soulmate. I don't so much fear it as I wouldn't be suprised if it happened. H and I primarily connect through our core values, our understanding of work, responsibility, family and our compatibility around daily life. Well, it isn't exactly a barn burner.
I have bought H Star Trek and other things he likes that I am not partial to and I even sit down and watch them with him. To top it off I even ask questions about the plot, how it connects to past episodes, the books etc... Luckily, we both enjoy football. He appreciates that I don't give him any guff about things he likes that I don't care much about and he refrains from laughing at my shelf of self help books, my occasional forays into artistic pursuits (I'm not artistic but like to develop my right brain, pursuit of yoga and weight training instead of all that cardio and my whole foods/natural style of eating. All in all, not a bad recipe for day to day marriage.
Now, if H were to meet an attractive woman who loves Ohio State Football, Star Trek, triathlons, raising umpteen children (some your own, some not), is socially moderate but politically conservative, Catholic, who doesn't eat vegetables, drinks vodka/cranberry and tropical drinks but no wine or beer, loves the beach, is well educated and earns a nice living - he might just f*ck the crap out of her daily and twice on Sunday. Know anyone?
Karen1 dear, < sympathetic older brother intentions> I have more respect for you than you seem to have for yourself and M right now.
if H were to meet an attractive woman who loves Ohio State Football, Star Trek, triathlons, raising umpteen children (some your own, some not), is socially moderate but politically conservative, Catholic, who doesn't eat vegetables, drinks vodka/cranberry and tropical drinks but no wine or beer, loves the beach, is well educated and earns a nice living - he might just f*ck the crap out of her daily and twice on Sunday. Know anyone?
The answer is no. And my list would be so much shorter right now. Maybe your H's list is shorter than you think it is.
What?? 17/18 qualifications for the perfect mate. Maybe I don't expect much from life but half that many qualifications would be better than the average M I see.
My general point, don't borrow trouble. Marriages are less than perfect. There are just too many day to day things that take a heck of a lot of time. I don't blame you for wanting some affection as you like it.
Sorry for the lack of sex and other things in your M right now.
You might feel bad about something you think you lack but from where I sit, you have lots of good qualities and more good in you than many women have or display.
Karen1, I am not being critical. I think you two have more than what many couples have.
