Re Lil It's not all in the head. Stress causes I agree stress, unhappiness, frustrations cause ..........
I had a doc that I went to for annual physicals. The first thing he asked was how was work, how was married life-sex, the kids-any problems, how life was going for me in general. Then he asked if I had any medical concerns.
His belief was more than 50% to 70% of what people present (the reason they came to the doctor's office) as medical problems have a correlation to what is happening in the patients life and how they react to those events.
You and I both know about hoe shingles are expressed during stressful times because I read an old post of yours (I think it was you) and BB had the same thing happen to her when we had it out once.
Maybe I should take up drinking, Not! No, that doesn't work. I read about it and learned from others.
Quote: ...One of his theories is that back pain is caused by repressed anger, because shutting down the emotions constricts the blood vessels and the back muscles are deprived of the blood supply they need to remain flexible and supple...
yeah, either that, or its that disc sticking out and pressing on that big ol' nerve there.... seriously, lots of different types with lots of causes. its a very broad area.
Mine was triggered by picking up a pencil off a desk. go figure...
so, since I've been hanging out here for the past week or so, which means that "stuff" has been bothering me lately...guess what flared up last week? (sigh). I do believe there is a link. "stress" is involved...but its not what "caused" the problem in my case.
Quote: its that disc sticking out and pressing on that big ol' nerve there
This is a VERY controversial topic. When John Stosney, the 20/20 reporter (I think that's his name) covered it, some people were FURIOUS at the very idea that their back pain might have an emotional COMPONENT.
Sarno says that this "bulging disc" stuff is basically bogus. That if you x-ray a huge sample of the general public, you'll find that many many-- if not most-- people have "bulging discs" and no pain whatsoever. That you can compare the x-ray of a person with severe back pain with that of a person-- or dozens of people-- with no back pain and that the x-rays will be identical with respect to the appearance of the discs, vertebrae, etc.
In fact, the reporter's brother had had back surgery (which BTW did NOT cure his back pain) and he was livid at Sarno, the book, the theory, and everything else that might hint that his unsuccessful back surgery was not necessary. It was kind of embarrassing for the reporter.
I suggest you not believe one word of what I've written (I'm probably remembering it wrong anyway), but investigate for yourself.
Be careful with back issues. There is definately an emotional component to the stress/pain issue (IMPO). Stress = tension = clenching = misalignment = compensating = pain. I saw the show about how often times back pain can be caused by nerve memory ( I think that's what they called it) and there was a workshop where people would go to work through the pain and re-train thier bodies to not experience the pain "memory" with certain movements. I tried working through the pain but it didn't work for me. When I got an MRI, the dr. refered to it as a "honking" big bulge of a disk. I DID need the surgery and felt better within hours than I had in 3 years. BTW, I don't think disk issues show up on x-rays. You may be able to see if there is less space between the vertebrae than there should be (which could indicate a bulging or ruptured disk) but it won't show the actual disk. There was definately a stigma attached to the surgery though. It seemed that people would get a twinge of pain and think they were experiencing the same thing I was. I felt like people were judging me as a wimp. It was when I could no longer walk, sit, stand, sleep, lay down without being in terrible pain (also pain shooting down my leg and numbness in my foot) that I finally had the surgery. My only regret was not having it sooner! Anyway, good luck with your back. Steady doses of ibuprophen and ice it for 20 minutes every hour.
Bear
The voyage of discovery is not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes.
--Marcel Proust
Re Lil if you x-ray a huge sample of the general public, you'll find that many many-- if not most-- people have "bulging discs" and no pain whatsoever This is partially/mostly true.
A lot of people have narrowed distances between vertebrae and bulges that don't cause problems, but some bulges that press on some nerves cause a loss in muscle strength, even to a point the muscle becomes atrophied.
In 1981, after 3 months of trying several things and a loss of muscle strength to the point I was dragging my toe on the floor when I tried to walk normally, and having pain and feeling like I wanted someone to shoot me, and only sleeping a couple hours on the floor every night, I decided enough was enough.
It took over a year for most of the muscle strength to be regained and I now have about 80% of my ability to lift the same amount of weight with my right and left big toe, one of the tests for how a damaged or pinched nerve effects locomotion.
Re Bear I don't think disk issues show up on x-rays. You may be able to see if there is less space between the vertebrae than there should be (which could indicate a bulging or ruptured disk) but it won't show the actual disk. That is what I saw on my X-rays, just a narrow space.
At the time of my surgery, they did myelogram (sp) IE inject a dye in the spinal column, X-ray the dye shape and look for any narrowing spots of the x-ray-able dye, that was only an indication of a potential bulge. I watched the x-ray monitor? as the doc carried out the procedure on me.
In 1981 they had to open you up to see if there was a bulge. The nerve damage/bulge caused muscle weakness, if that matched the narrowed dye shape on the X-ray, then the doc made a reasonable diagnosis that surgery was called for. All of this was to determine the general location to start the cutting.
About the same time, some places in the medical field was doing injections to the bulge, so the bulge would disintegrate with the chemical from a pit of some fruit. It was less invasive, took longer to reduce the size of the bulge and had to be repeated in some cases.
I think MRI's made a big improvement in diagnosing soft tissue problems as disks are considered soft tissue.
(also pain shooting down my leg and numbness in my foot) that I finally had the surgery Me too. That was in 1981. I started to get a repeat of the symptoms in 1986 but was sort of fired before I got into full bore numbness and pain. That is when I decided I had to do another type of work. The heavy lifting and bending at work was at the root of my back problems.
Well, since then I have almost been feeling normal but never got into the rut I was in in 1981.
Steady doses of ibuprofen and ice it for 20 minutes every hour. That and some heat and exercises, baring my one emergency-room trip, is about what I do now.
There is still a stress and memory factor to my back pain. I hope to remedy some of my symptoms with information that might be contained in the book.
There was definitely a stigma attached I wanted to touch on a different type of stigma and that is the stigma of being called a malinger or downright lazy and using back pain to get out of having to go to work. IE being labeled a free loader or wanting to be on the dole as they say in the UK.
I even had some people say "must be nice not going to work." At that time I would have worked 50 hours a week for 40 hours pay if I didn't have the back pain. So what do people know about stigma and back pain? Some do, some don't.
After I was told not to come back to work in 1986, I applied for several light duty jobs but couldn't get much more than a quick interview. I wanted to work so bad that I would have taken almost anything, even telemarketing, which I later did but that was after college.
Even after college I had a difficult time finding work. I must have applied for 150 jobs and just recently shredded over 100 rejection letters.
Right now i am taking care of Lou a little more and letting some things ride.
Quote: Sarno says that this "bulging disc" stuff is basically bogus. That if you x-ray a huge sample of the general public, you'll find that many many-- if not most-- people have "bulging discs" and no pain whatsoever. That you can compare the x-ray of a person with severe back pain with that of a person-- or dozens of people-- with no back pain and that the x-rays will be identical with respect to the appearance of the discs, vertebrae, etc.
If that is what he said, then he is absolutely full of crap. A more rediculous assertion, I have never heard. Of course their x-rays will all look the same. You can't see this tissue on an x-ray!!! You most certainly CAN see a difference, very plainly, on an MRI. (not possible in 1981..."the dark ages" comparitavely speaking). The level of detail that you can see is quite astounding. looks like a backbone is sticking out its tongue really! "everyone" does NOT have this condition, believe me.
now, this is not to say that emotional distress won't exacerbate just about anything...but to suggest that there isn't anything physical in nature is just poppycock. anyone who has felt what I felt when I was hospitalized with it would never make such an assertion. I have a hard time finding words to describe the pain. It felt like I was being run through with a broad sword. not "boo boo" type pain, which throbs or stays "sore" constantly. Once the initial attack was controlled (heavy sedation), I was ok as long as I didn't move. move the wrong way, (touch the nerve), and I'd be on the ceiling. stop doing that: no pain. they kept offering me pain killers, which I refused, because I didn't need them...as long as I didn't move. anyway, I couldn't move for 3 days. Then I couldn't walk without crutches for a couple of weeks. all the while, like walking a tight rope...one false move and "yikes!!".
as far as the "stigma" goes...the problem seems to be one of communication. "no, I mean REAL back pain". "oh, sorry, I thought you just meant "back pain". Seriously, even the insurance company initially refused to pay for my hosptialization, saying "you don't need to be admitted to the hospital for a sore back". Obviously, they did not understand. Luckily, someone from the hospital must have explained it to them, because I got another letter shortly thereafter saying that they had changed their mind.
Oh, and I asked my doc about taking "advil"...he actually snorted at the thought. said that it wouldn't touch this problem. What they Rx'd is a much, much stronger anti-inflamatory. that and skeletal muscle relaxants (in combination) is the standard of care these days, until they decide that they need to take further action.
Quote: I asked my doc about taking "advil"...he actually snorted at the thought. said that it wouldn't touch this problem. What they Rx'd is a much, much stronger anti-inflamatory. that and skeletal muscle relaxants (in combination) is the standard of care these days, until they decide that they need to take further action.
Yep, they had me on Skelaxin (muscle relaxers), nuerontin (nerve painkiller), darvocet, hydrocodone, valium, naproxin (prescription anti-inflammatory) and sleeping pills. Nothing worked. Oddly enough, I did get a little relief if I kept steady doses of advil and ice going but your doc is right that it won't do much.
Lou I hear you about the "lazy" stigma. It's frustrating, that's for sure. I would try to do the grocery shopping and skip stuff that was too high or too low on the shelf for me to reach. I had to support myself with the cart and even then, I could only take a few steps at a time and then I'd have to squat down (this would stretch my back a little and make it bearable for a few more steps. I had my XH yelling at me about how horrible it was for him to be married to a "crippled" person. Of course he did not understand the pain I was in ALL the time. I really feel for anyone having to deal with that type of pain. I still find myself terrified if I feel a sneeze coming on sometimes.
The voyage of discovery is not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes.
--Marcel Proust
Quote: Of course their x-rays will all look the same. You can't see this tissue on an x-ray!!! You most certainly CAN see a difference, very plainly, on an MRI.
Yeah, I meant to say MRI. I suggest you read what he said so that you can respond with appropriate anger at him and not at my inaccurate reporting of his POV.
Quote: this is not to say that emotional distress won't exacerbate just about anything...but to suggest that there isn't anything physical in nature is just poppycock.
He never said there isn't anything physical going on.
Geez... this program was on a zillion years ago... I know I'm getting a bunch of stuff wrong.
The level of your annoyance with my poor reporting job is pretty minor compared with the rage of people who have had INEFFECTUAL back surgery and then come across Sarno and consider that he might be right.
Aren't you a little teeny weeny bit curious though? Or is your mind snapped tight shut?
at the thought. said that it wouldn't touch this problem. What they Rx'd is a much, much stronger anti-inflamatory. that and skeletal muscle relaxants (in combination) is the standard of care these days, until they decide that they need to take further action.