Your challenge is to keep your mood on an even keel no matter whether she is nice to you or cranky. It doesn't sound like she's actively mean to you... just cranky or resistant.
You have total control over how you react to her. This is your work. This is your mission, your task-- to resist letting her crankiness interfere with your happiness. You can do this. Spiritual Boot Camp.
Quote: one of her friends is not too busy for her to call and visit on the phone for 15 minuets.
Why are you suggesting that she call her friends? This is kind of micromanaging, isn't it?
I think your Identity System has a picture of what you think "should" be in a relationship: shared values, moods in harmony with each other, you give each other suggestions about what to do and they are received and followed graciously, etc.
That's not the marriage you're in. I suggest to continue trying to shove the square peg of your marriage into that round hole is only setting yourself up for frustration.
I suggest you live in the marriage you DO have: a woman who's picky, sedentary, not particularly well-read, loves animals, slow-moving, appreciative sometimes but grudgingly, loves physical contact with you (foot/back rubs) as long as it's not usually sexual... THAT'S who you're married to.
I asked you this before, too... is there anything about her that is TRULY lovable to you? Or are you so focused on the things about her that bug you that you can't find anything to love?
Why are you suggesting that she call her friends? This is kind of micromanaging, isn't it? That was an example of something I did in the past and realise I can't help her. She has to do her own things. More below.
Why did i do it in the past? Because I could see BB was being influenced by watching news events like the Afghanistan and Iraq invasions, the Palestinian bombing buses in Israel, then The Islamic Militant bombings in Baghdad, and some of the crimes committed against women by men, 6 to 8 hours a day was getting her worked up and that spilled over into our R. That much news was too much for me too.
We had a few days of little TV time and I have said I was not watching it with her several times.
That is one reason I asked BB to start calling her friends and talk to them or do something with them. This is another reason we go out to eat sometimes, I want to get BB away from the 24/7 news programs. If she doesn't want to go, I go by myself.
I asked you this before, too... is there anything about her that is TRULY lovable to you? On good days, we get along great, lots of give and take, not much pickyness, few radical statements. I am looking and working for more good days.
I am not going to force it to happen, mostly trying to provide some options and opportunities.
just cranky or resistant. That is a good way to put it.
Or are you so focused on the things about her that bug you that you can't find anything to love ??????? see relationship overhead below.
a woman who's picky, sedentary, not particularly well-read, loves animals, slow-moving, appreciative sometimes but grudgingly, loves physical contact with you (foot/back rubs) as long as it's not usually sexual... This is what I refer to as relationship overhead, things I have to ignore or not let them effect me so much or find more ways to self sooth.
Some of the church members are calling us and I see BB taking an interest in some potential functions. Maybe some good changes are in the making.
Quote: This is what I refer to as relationship overhead, things I have to ignore or not let them effect me so much or find more ways to self sooth.
I guess the point I've been trying to make all along is that every relationship has these things. You might imagine that if you were married to a different sort of woman, you wouldn't be bugged about that woman's behavior. But as observant and sensitive as you are, sooner or later you would be driven nuts by your partner's behavior. It's just a question of what kind of nuttiness can you live with.
Don't get me wrong. I agree that BB's behavior is very annoying... but what if you were married to a woman who had to talk to her mother five times every day on the phone, or who wore tons of makeup, or who HATED dogs and wouldn't let one near her. I'm also not trying to paste a happy face on your sitch, just to point out that being bugged or not begins with YOU. This is something YOU control, and you do not control it by trying in vain to control your partner's behavior.
I still didn't hear any love in your description of BB.
Name for me one quality that SHE has (not how she relates to you when she's in the right mood) that you find truly, unequivocally lovable. Not stuff like "we get along," but something about HER that you respect and admire.
Re Lil This is something YOU control, and you do not control it by trying in vain to control your partner's behavior. I know I control it according to Rational Emotive Therapy, A. Ellis, it's just a lot easier to live with someone that is a little less critical and sees the good in things.
But as observant and sensitive as you are, sooner or later you would be driven nuts by your partner's behavior About everyone has faults and some would bug me, I agree. That goes along with my 5% compatibility estimate. Also, it's not just me I think about. I think, what about the OP, do I bug them in some big way that is a deal breaker or is very annoying?
Name for me one quality that SHE has....something about HER that you respect and admire. BB has the animal's welfare at heart. BB sticks to a schedule well. BB exercises even when she doesn't see results. She keeps the house clean.
In a round about way, I asked BB, what are some good traits she has that she would like people to know more about. She said none. I said she takes care of the animals well, sticks to schedules, and exercises on a regular basis.
I hinted she had some traits that were good and she said she was grumpy to people and knew why some people don't like her. I think she was trying to bait or string me along. A little while later, I asked if she still felt she was a grumpy person. She said no, especially after a back rub.
Thank you for sticking with this dialogue, Lou. It must seem like the third degree. But one of the things I like about this board is that we can get deeply into something-- at least as deeply as you can when not sitting with someone in person. You're very tolerant to put up with this from me. I appreciate it.
Quote: In a round about way, I asked BB, what are some good traits she has that she would like people to know more about. She said none. I said she takes care of the animals well, sticks to schedules, and exercises on a regular basis.
Whoof! It hurt to read that... she thinks she has nothing much worthwhile about herself. That makes me sad to read. Sounds like very low self-esteem.
My mother is like this... she has gone through most of her life consumed with self-loathing. She has always believed that she is utterly worthless. It's only recently, in her 80's, that she has glimmerings of a notion that she might be just as worthwhile as anyone else.
There's really nothing you can do directly for someone who thinks they have minimal inherent worth. But you can STOP teaching, correcting, micromanaging them, as a way of not making it worse. If someone already feels they are worthless, and you're always trying to correct them or "help" them, do you see how this doesn't help at all?
If you asked your kids (can't remember how many kids you have), "What are your mom's best qualities?" what would they say?
Quote: I hinted she had some traits that were good and she said she was grumpy to people and knew why some people don't like her.
Of COURSE she knows she's grumpy and why people don't like her! She doesn't sound stupid, just full of self-hatred.
Quote: I think she was trying to bait or string me along.
What do you mean by this? If you mean she was trying to bait you into paying her a compliment, well, yeah, maybe she was. So pay her a compliment already.
Re lil
It must seem like the third degree. Not really. More like Lostgals post, look at the good things more. I know you lean towards looking at the good things in your R with bf.
she thinks she has nothing much worthwhile about herself. That makes me sad to read. Sounds like very low self-esteem. Very low self-esteem, yes. Especially in some areas. OTH She said none (self-esteem) goes along with a pattern not that uncommon even here on the SSM forum. One day most things are gloom and a week later things are Rosy.
It also matches BB's pattern of over stating things. Like the time she said she didn't have to worry about me having an A, no woman would want me then a few months later quizzing me about "who was she", a potential OW, and a few months later making remarks like I was gay. <not a complaint, just information why I don't take some statements at face value>
It's only recently, in her 80's,(Lil's mother) that she has glimmerings of a notion that she might be just as worthwhile as anyone else. That is good to hear. I think of situations like your mother and myself at times, even-though the person is a parent, sometimes it takes a longer time or a lifetime to be a stable and properly functioning adult.
That was different than many peoples mental model, where to the kids, the parents seemed to have so much power and we thought they should be perfect like Beaver Cleaver parents. Gees, even Lassie had an almost perfect home. <just using the two programs as a dramatic/overstated example> But that was all written into a script and not real life.
I saw parental maturity delays, especially with the Native American boys in the group home. Mom and dad drinking and drugging and the only "adults/parents" in the extended family were the grandparents. In some families it is the norm that the grandparents raise the kids.
If someone already feels they are worthless, and you're always trying to correct them or "help" them, do you see how this doesn't help at all? I see this, especially when done frequently or any of the other excessive type, descriptive words.
One case between BB and I, which worked, was during one of her down times. I asked if she was worth the higher priced meal or just a $1 burger. I knew she didn't like the $1 burger but she resisted saying she was worth the better meal. I said I thought she was worth the better meal but if she really thought she was only worth the $1 burger, I would reluctantly settle for her choice. It was similar to when she wanted to have ice cream but stay in the car. Watching the news, bombings, for 8+ hours a day and not wanting to mingle a little sounds like a formula to lower self-esteem.
I did it in a semi-serious way and avoided anything personal or judgemental. BB caught on I was just fishing for some more positive or less negative answers. It was like a contest asking "who is the vice president of the U.S."
But you can STOP teaching, correcting, micromanaging them I would say micromanaging was my biggest problem because I was goal oriented, afraid of the R failing. When I had a gradual mental shift to, what ever happens, I will be OK, and BB would make it on her own, the micro-management part is gradually decreasing.
If someone already feels they are worthless, and you're always trying to correct them or "help" them, do you see how this doesn't help at all? Yes I see how a person (me) can enable the OP to not be responsible for their stuff.
If you asked your kids (can't remember how many kids you have), "What are your mom's best qualities?" what would they say? I will ask.
D (has 2 girls), now a nurse like BB, was born in 1970. Son (not married, doesn't want a gf) born in 1972 almost 1973 is a diesel mechanic for a railroad. Just pointing out the kids followed in the parent's footsteps, and all on their own BTW. D married a mechanic. Interesting pattern for all of the pattern followers/theorist's.
Of COURSE she knows she's grumpy and why people don't like her! She doesn't sound stupid, just full of self-hatred. In addition, I also saw some fishing for attention.
(lou)I think she was trying to bait or string me along....(lil)What do you mean by this? I felt she might be looking for attention, or was expecting me to rescue her in some small way, or maybe just to keep things stirred up. I don't know for sure. All I do know, I wasn't going to own/buy into any of her stuff. It was her stuff. All I could do is listen and state what I think or feel.
So pay her a compliment already I did this AM. Today's temps are going to be just at the point when we like to turn on the air-conditioning (A/C). BB asked me, should she or shouldn't she in a way that indicated did I think it was going to be warmer or cooler than predicted.
I said she had better insight to her comfort level than I did and always made the right decision in the past. I think I used the words "common sense" in there someplace.
BB said thanks for the compliment and went on to say she thought she had more "common sense" than many people had.
<back ground info. Most days when we like to A/C the house, it isn't till 11AM till it gets that warm and on some days it cools off enough by 8PM, we don't need A/C. Some days we don't A/C until after lunch, especially if the humidity is low.>
Sounds like both of you are on a starvation diet. Yes, that is part of the reason for the outings and group events I am going to. I think that getting a glimpse of what other people do and interact with them, I can lose some of my urges to fix the R that are not working. I can see some improvements in myself and BB already.
C session at 2PM today. I will review some of the things that happened, changed, and talk about lightening the old baggage items.
I just shredded some financial papers I had from the early 80's. The data is now on the computer's hard drive. I printed out a summary, have a back-up copy on another partition of the hard drive, a set of back-up floppy disks. What I still need to do is burn a copy to CD ROM's.
Quote: I said she had better insight to her comfort level than I did and always made the right decision in the past. I think I used the words "common sense" in there someplace.
BB said thanks for the compliment and went on to say she thought she had more "common sense" than many people had.
This is sweet.
If someone is fishing for attention, for God's sake, give it to them! All most people really want is to be SEEN and HEARD.
To resist giving her a positive stroke when she is so desperate is mean. It's not "rescuing." Rescuing is doing someone's work for them, i.e. doing something they could/should be doing for themselves. Complimenting someone is not doing their work for them.
BB said thanks for the compliment Lil, I thought we got something right and that I connected a little. In the past BB would take my reserved compliments and do a twist on them so their meaning had a different slant than I intended them to have. I suppose you know it is somewhat frustrating to pay a compliment to someone and then they deflect it.
I review some of my "getting unstuck" activities with my C and he approved of how I handled things. We reviewed a few ways to approach a discussion when BB and I are talking about the same subject but are on different pages.
The C liked the steps I took concerning some of the group activities I started doing since I saw him last.
If someone is fishing for attention, for God's sake, give it to them! I will practice this concept more.
You are just quite fab! I have been reading through your exchanges with Lou and your insight and wisdom are really fantastic. Been cutting and pasting bits that I like.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
It must seem like the third degree. But one of the things I like about this board is that we can get deeply into something-- at least as deeply as you can when not sitting with someone in person. You're very tolerant to put up with this from me. I appreciate it. 