The bedroom is air-conditioned. We even have a remote control and can get the room down to 60f/15.5c. Daytime temps range from 55f/12.7c at night to 85f/29.4 in the late afternoon. Sorry that the other parts of the country is so warm. I hope some if this cooler stuff arrives to where you live soon.
Not much new here. I am still keeping busy and not trying to get BB to see my way by doing more for her. I am avoiding most of the things I see as P/A and not doing anything for spite or that appears getting even, but BB said I was being grumpy to her.
We did have some conversations about old subjects where she said I don't support her, take other peoples side, that they have something against her or have it in for her.
I said "have it in for you" that is what I don't see. I see people looking at things from their POV, not that they want to get your goat and that is where we differ. I said I was trying to help her feel better, that no one was out her, even when they made a cutting remark.
ME: So I am at a point of trying to be a supporting H but not promote what I see as an over reaction on BB's part.
I know some people will say, stay out of the tar pit. I agree. What I did this time was to hold on to a sturdy tree and extend a hand. I also felt as if I was pushing a button on a remote control and expecting something to happen, but it didn't. That is till the 250'th try.
It was like the TV was on channel 2 and I wanted to watch channel 10. The remote control was very simple and only allowed the operator to move one channel at a time.
I was on channel 2 and now, after pressing the up button 250 times I am on channel 3.
Moving on: Now that the bedroom's temperature can be adjusted to something under 70f/21c, I tried to do More body contact things but the fall out <mostly in my mind> which I didn't post here, has me reluctant to do much of anything physical. I remember "kiss and make up" but that feels like it was so long ago I almost forgot how to do it. Where is the line between making up and rescuing and just getting what I want.
Guess I better keep throwing out my old printers (quantity 15) that sold for $2,500 new, but are now worth $10. Most were non-working trade-ins and I didn't pay much for them. They were handy for parts but the market has moved on. Printers don't depreciate as fast as computers, so I am thankful for that. I bailed out of computer hardware when Windows 95 came out.
I have made comments about my situation on other threads and thought I should make them on my own thread.
Lou
Remote Controls, they are everywhere but.....not in relationships.
I said "have it in for you" that is what I don't see. I see people looking at things from their POV, not that they want to get your goat and that is where we differ. I said I was trying to help her feel better, that no one was out her, even when they made a cutting remark.
It seems to me that where you feel like you are supporting, it may seem to BB like you are not supporting but rather arguing with the way she sees things. She thinks people are out to get her. You don't. But to support her, you validate not dispute. If you disagree with her point of view so much that you can't bring yourself to say 'I understand why you might feel that way', then maybe you can just listen really well, look her in the eye, nod your head and/or make some validative noises, mm hmm, really?, etc.
Have you ever read "I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better"? It's a great read Lou, of all the books I've read, there is so much practical information in that book that I would recommend it to absolutely everyone. It explains how your job as a listener is not to solve the other person's problems, it is just to listen, to be there. I hope you'll take a look at the book, since you've said this is your 250th try, I was wondering if maybe your tries are really 'more of the same' and perhaps you need a different approach. Good luck.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Your response to Lou is exactly what I was thinking too. Lou, try just simply validating her. Don't bring up another perspective or POV, just validate her during some of your conversations and see what happens.
You don't even have to agree with her as Heather said, but surely you can at the very least see....how she might have her POV. Simply saying something such as "I can certainly see how you COULD feel like people are out to get you." and then say nothing more. Don't try to give her a POV that people aren't really doing that....if you take it past the point of the validating statement and try to show her another POV, you are no longer validating her.
BELIEVE me, I know how difficult it to listen to someone make a statement like "everyone is out to get me" and just leave it at "I can see how you might/could feel that way." I have a tendancy to try to point out how things aren't truly that way myself with my H. I notice though that with him (considering I get to hear how awful the management is where he works everyday when I first see him)....that if I just simply listen, make affirming sounds so he knows I'm listening, and occasionally respond to a statement with something like (depending on the statement) "I can see how that would make you feel like that", or if I already know he's angry I might respond to a comment he's relaying to me from a co-worker that ticked him off...."I imagine that went over like a ton of bricks, someone talking to me like that would tick me off too."
Validating someone....doesn't mean you have to agree with them, and it doesn't include trying to get them to see another perspective. Validating simply stated means that you basically listen to them and empathize to a certain extent that they have a right to "feel" the way that they do. No matter how nutty they may appear to you
RE Heather "I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better"? Thanks for the post and book endorsement.
Heather, I started out trying to fix the R. I know it takes two to do that, hint about me. Right now I am saying BS to BB's statements, that I and other people don't support her, that people had or have it in for her. I certainally can understand her feeling that way and have said so.
RE GEL a)Validating simply stated means that you basically listen to them and empathize to a certain extent that they have a right to "feel" the way that they do. b) No matter how nutty they may appear to you
I do the a) part but feel like it makes the b) part worse by letting some of this go on and on.
There was a situation here at home I did not mention on the forum. It involved a mother daughter/birthday party comment that caused a rift in a mother daughter relationship to go on for 9 months, of little contact and the contact was strained. The major participants at onetime decided no more birthday parties.
It happened a couple of years ago but BB uses the example to explain her POV and why she thinks I am against her and usually don't support her as she thinks a husband should.
This adds to or continues BB's position that some people have it in for her or that if she were someone else better, that better person would have been treated with more respect.
BB's assumption, that she gets the short end of the prize spills over into her opinion of me.
I try to support her and am defending myself at the same time. That is one reason we or at least I, go over this global issue for the 250th time.
It took almost a week, but I think BB is starting to discuss things more fairly. I think she is using the concept of debate in a more factual way, rather than in a way that she feels like she is being attacked and has to defend herself at all costs.
I know I am less clued into some social interactions and what is going on behind the words and highly visable actions, so will admit I don't see all of the disses BB sees or feels. FWIW.
I think what GEL and Heather are saying to you is exactly what JamesJohn was trying to say also.
You replied to JamesJohn that BB see right thru you though. If she sees thru it, then its not really a 180 is it?
This is where you will have to make a step in here direction. She sees right thru your steps at moving toward her, that 180, because its not honest. Its not true empathy, its just you saying <monotone voice> 'Yeah. your right' She does know you inside and out. Therefore there is no true empathy when you just verbally agree with her. A step towards BB would be --to use the example of the steaks, saying 'Yeah those steaks were cheap and tough. It may have been what they could afford though. Tell you what, lets go to the grocery store and get some tender juicy melt in your mouth Angus steaks. '
How would she respond to that? Lou your thrifty, saving, do a lot with a little attitude is rare and a real asset to your family. Strengths can be weaknesses too though. I have my own ways I take anti consumerism too far too. Personally I dont see where you should get rid of your inventory, if its making you a profit still. But maybe if you bought one of those frivolous 4 dollar cups of coffee with BB once in a while she would see you moving a little towards her side of the equation. I bet it would shock the crap out of her at any rate.
I aplogize for not capatilizing your name last time. I meant no disrespect, just lazy typing. I wont cap my name, I dont respect myself enough in this place. Funny that you noticed that. The other places I use it, it is capped, one place its even in ALL CAPS. Originally I chose to use it here, in case x had stumbled across the BB she would recognize it immediately.
Quote: Lou your thrifty, saving, do a lot with a little attitude is rare and a real asset to your family. Strengths can be weaknesses too though. I have my own ways I take anti consumerism too far too. Personally I dont see where you should get rid of your inventory, if its making you a profit still. But maybe if you bought one of those frivolous 4 dollar cups of coffee with BB once in a while she would see you moving a little towards her side of the equation. I bet it would shock the crap out of her at any rate.
I agree with BF. I am the frugal one in my marriage so I totally understand your POV but I realize now that I spent way too much time and energy having arguments about things like whether or not the generic tastes as good as the brand name. What made a big difference in my situation was I insisted that my H take over handling the family finances. Now he can see the benefit of my frugality when it comes to the grocery budget and I can see the benefit of his more liberal spirit when it comes to spending money on me- LOL. I can see that a lot of his "pickiness" was due to lack of control and a lot of my feeling of being an overworked lackey was due to taking on too much responsibility in an effort to please. Of course, if you believe that your W is actually irresponsible when it comes to money management rather than just someone with different priorities, this approach wouldn't work. BF's idea is good. Another good idea might be to tell BB that you would like to buy some new clothes for yourself and you would like her input on where to shop and what to buy. Maybe if you're lucky she'll think you look so hot in the new expensive duds she picks out for you she'll be inclined to take them right off you too!
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Re: Blackfoot I apologize for not capitalizing your name last time. "B"lackfoot, the capitalization post was not about "MY" name, it was about "YOUR" name.
I started out thinking, I can't/won't write anyone's name in lower case letters. I just thought maybe <asking a question type> that with all of the alpha traits that you talk about on the SSM forum, was there something to you using a lower case letter to start your name?
On my part, I quit school in the 10th. grade, later took at-home correspondence courses, passed the state G.E.D. with flying colors Then taught myself auto mechanics from books and some hands-on experience.
I worked as an auto mechanic turning my nose up some at many of the grammar rules, miss spelled enough words, and hated to write anything. Then I had my back problems and had to make many changes.
I went to college and was forced to write. I immersed myself in the studies and wrote many more papers than I could have ever imagined. I started to improve my spelling and writing skills using writing style books, dictionaries, and grammar usage books. Later in college, I bought a computer and some grammar software. I even surprised myself at what I could do if I practiced it enough.
Some of my writing and grammar problems came from moving so many times. I counted 28 school moves which didn't help. Then in (1988) I am in college and earning a 3.82/4.0 GPA. I see some of my stuff/attitudes and feelings about writing was compulsive in some ways. After all I was there to learn
The lack of a capital letter in your name is part of the changes "I" made in my life and in part, wondering, does blackfoot have some reason for not starting his screen name with capital letter or is it a non issue?
My other main point was to encourage you to totally own your screen name and make the best of it as you can. I don't want to have to salute you or say Mr. Blackfoot, but thought enough of you to suggest the change.
As far as "lou" or "Lou", is not much of an issue to me but "I/me" do like to do things according to publicly accepted standards.
I wont cap my name, I don't respect myself enough in this place. Funny that you noticed that. Not respecting yourself enough when others do?????
I am not going to force you to do anything. Just suggesting you give yourself an up-grade.
That might sound strange from a guy that won't fly first class because he doesn't see the value of more creature comforts first class has to offer.
I remember when the trip took 5 days and to do it in a day seems wonderful enough. Just one reason coach is good enough.
Transparency:
You replied to JamesJohn that BB see right thru you though. If she sees thru it, then its not really a 180 is it? I know I have the problem of other people seeing through me. It was one reason I left the job working in the delinquent-boy's group home. Most of the residents and many of the employees were manipulators at one time or were currently.
The most effective people there, could act and not give off many clues. They acted the same no matter if they were happy with someone or about to stab them in the back by filing a written grievance that might get a resident kicked out of the program or another employee fired.
Back to BB:
I look for ways to work things out with maximum benefits and yes minimum resources and minimum conflict. I dislike waist and excessive frills. Most of my life has been associated with the most bang for the buck, rather than lets see how fast we can make this puppy go and cost is not much of a concern.
I guess that transfers into R's in that I am willing to state my opinions and ask for what I want but not willing to lose the R over some points where I think it should be easy to come to an agreement.
I am seeing, that mind set (not willing to lose the R) is not working and am making more progress with the attitude what we disagree on and all of the other things we disagree on is not worth the conflicts we have.
It was not until I was OK with "what happens, happens," was I able to say what was on my mind and what ever BB felt was something she was going to have to work out herself. I had to admit, I can fix or improve so many things but maybe all I can do is make our R just so, so.
A step towards BB would be --to use the example of the steaks, saying 'Yeah those steaks were cheap and tough. It may have been what they could afford though. Tell you what, lets go to the grocery store and get some tender juicy melt in your mouth Angus steaks. But what if they were not tough? Sure, don't discredit her feelings, it doesn't work.
In this case, my opinion is BB has her mind made up she didn't like the guy that bought them, didn't like where the guy bought them, and doesn't agree with how the guy spends his money among other things.
The steaks all looked alike and were vacuum wrapped. It could be hers was tough. No one else said theirs was tough and some people had two.
I did offer to stop on the way home to buy an Angus burger with fried onions, but BB said that would be over eating.
I could have said, I'm sorry you got a tough one and yes the guy's spending habits are strange and yes store X or QVC does have better meat, or just said we will have our own in a couple of days.
BB, from what I read, Mr MoJo, Mrs. HD, other particular/picky people is an issue for me. Sometime the temp is over 80, some times it is under 40, sometimes the bread is white, sometimes it is whole wheat. Make due will' ya. Life is not perfect.
Being more open:
I had enough of the distancing in the R so decided to make more small talk and spend more time with BB.
I had been sitting with her a little longer for the past couple of days as I have gotten caught up on my outside yard work. She has been deferring to me more and making fewer rivalry type remarks.
I rubbed her feet and back some till I figured I had enough but BB asked for more. I asked if she was looking for free-bees or was she willing to recriprocate with some affection / attention with me. She didn't say yes but did say she wanted more of the back rubs so I continued until she started to do her little "momma loves you" with the dogs again. I slowed down waited for BB to be done with her dog interactions.
<I give attention to BB, she gives attention to the dogs and some how I am supposed to get what I want from the dogs. <buzz, does not compute, wrong answer, you are out of the game> That is the problem for me.>
BB came up with some ideas as to how she thought "I" felt or thought that were wrong. It involved a subject where tactile feel could be used. I took her hand and placed it on mine and asked her in a challenging way to tell me what my hand and fingers were feeling, since she knew some things better than I did.
This time I stuck to what I was feeling, describing actual sensations, what those sensations made me think of, what I was concerned about if certain things happened or didn't happen, and what I wanted to do and have her accept. I also said I hoped she felt she could be as open as I was, as trusting as I was, felt as safe as I did. I said she can feel what she wants to but be honest and don't hide behind some made up image or barrier and work with what is.
Well, as Hairdog would post, "You lucky dog" That is all of the details I want post about last night.
Today, well what happens happens. If BB wants to believe I do or don't feel a certain way and she knows better than I do, she can stay or leave or believe what she wants to.
I feel I am in a better spot and more in control of my life and more in control of the R as I think it should be.
Quote: took her hand and placed it on mine and asked her in a challenging way to tell me what my hand and fingers were feeling, since she knew some things better than I did.
Brilliant!! I'm going to use this the next time my W pulls the "she knows best" thing on me.
And, I would never, ever, insult you by calling you a lucky dog, you lucky ba$tard!
Re Jenny I can see that a lot of his "pickiness" was due to lack of control and a lot of my feeling of being an overworked lackey was due to taking on too much responsibility in an effort to please. This computes.
Of course, if you believe that your W is actually irresponsible when it comes to money management At times, this is true. I think it is related to addiction. Think mini-Jenny's mother in the dollar amount, like $500 a month instead of $1,500 a month. BB has stopped her excessive spending.
just someone with different priorities, Some of this too, Jenny.
Another good idea might be to tell BB that you would like to buy some new clothes for yourself and you would like her input on where to shop and what to buy. We actually went into 3 clothing stores a couple of weeks ago. I found some things that fit tall men but they were mostly made for fat men. The waist and chest sizes are no problem, it's the height dimension I have trouble with.
Of course, I can go to the "Big and Tall" store and pad three times as much as regular WalMart prices for very similar items made in the same country.
I have bought some items from "Blair" on-line Big and Tall web site. I look but rarely buy because I am not sure of the fit. some things that are for tall men are made from patterns that are really for big/wide men. It reminds me of people talking louder to blind people, IYKWIM.
Maybe if you're lucky she'll think you look so hot in the new expensive duds she picks out for you she'll be inclined to take them right off you too! If that is the case MoJo, I better get a hair cut (short) lose the flab on the belly, and break out the Angus steaks.
I thought men needed the eye-candy. I am seeing more and more women want eye-candy too, < Lou looks up and thinks, no forum names > and thinks alpha works too.
So Jenny, want to meet and see who can buy the most clothes for $5. The winner gets $500 (our pot of $250 each) to spend on so called good clothes? Call me at BW4-5789 or should I call you at 867-5309 and we can work out the details? <both phone # song titles/related>
OR
I can see it now, Jenny and Lou on "What not to Wear" a two fer one show, one of Lil's favorite programs.
Back to reality, I guess I should look at the Blair.com site soon.
