Quote: but is it possible the H doesn't call because he knows that is exactly what you want? It's a control game?
Yes, that's definately possible. But I can't really say if he does or doesn't know why I've cut back on the emails or even how much it even impacts him. That's all just trying to guess what's in his head again. All I can do, I figure, is try the change for a while and monitor his reaction-if any.
(Opti), Why don't you send him a couple of those phone cards in the mail? That should give him a none too subtle hint that you want him to pick up and call. Maybe even scribble some one/two word topics on them in marker so he'll know how to get the conversation started/keep it moving. RonJon
Cute idea, Ron Jon. Maybe I'll try that after this "not jumping at his emails" thing.
Honestly, I have very little hope about this "not jumping at his emails" thing. My guess is that I'd have to go months of not engaging him in email, and even then, he wouldn't call. Not until he got his orders for his new unit, maybe sometime in January or later. Then he would probably just email me the info, if he felt like sharing.
Yesterday I sent H another one liner email thanking for sending those movies to S4. He hasn't emailed back. But, who cares, right? If he did, I would avoid answering unless I had to.
I guess I'll give this thing until the end of October, then call it a failed "changed behavior." And then what...start emailing him long, chatty emails again? I don't know.
After a few days of pretty good focus, I lost it again. To be expected I guess. Deadlines looming at work again this week, so I'll have no choice but to focus Thursday and Friday.
Even though I'm trying to stop, I ended up plotting my future again the past couple days. It's like my neurotic obsession. Even though I have all these variables I'm trying to plot around..."if this happens, then I'll do A, if that happends, then I'll do B..." it never works that way. New variables happen and my emotions change. And I'm lost all over again.
And over the past couple days my confidence that H and I have a chance has gone way down. Not that it hasn't been good at all since that "second bomb" H dropped. I guess it's argueable about whether it was even a bomb, but the effect was the same.
Honestly, what are the chances that we can work this out. What are the chances that H and I are really going to survive a huge double life change like moving AND getting new jobs given the seriously crippled state of our M? Just not good. Who am I kidding? I better be willing to stay put where I am for a good while to try to space out these life changes, or I better move on and let him go.
Part of my negative attitude right now is the fact that I've been cruising the board and found a thread about how seriously unhappy and ignored wives can get their husband's attention before they decide to give up and leave. And you know what...nobody has a freaking answer. Not even the LBS men. They remember their wives nagging about wanting this and that, like I nagged to my H about wanting him to go somewhere with me, wanting to cuddle with him on the sofa, wanting him to go for a walk with me. But they didn't take it seriously and they figured their W would just get over it. And that just took me straight back to what it was like living with H, when things weren't going well. How lonely and abandoned I felt even then. Resorting to muscle relaxers to make myself fall asleep instead draining myself by crying all night alone in bed while H slept on the sofa AGAIN. And how he would literally say, "you'll get over it" or "you're the one with the problem."
Oh Christ, why am I so slow to let go. Certainly it has a lot to do with security and money. But if that was all it was, I could move anywhere I wanted and just put off filing for D until I was completely self supporting again. I've taken a step back from the job search and planning the move because I know H won't give me the information I need to make my decision without regrets. If he just said, "I don't think we should live together, lets just stay married like this forever," it would hurt like hell-just like his past bombs. And I would be scared, but atleast it wouldn't be because I might be throwing away a chance for us to be a family again. I would know that there was no chance for that.
Instead what I would get, and have already gotten to some degree, would be "I can't make any decisions for you. It doesn't make any difference to me. I can't tell you what to do." Total lack of committment. Total absence of risk taking on his part. He's safe. I'm still out here swinging in the wind.
If H was to call right now, I don't even know what I'd say. The DBer in me says that I would act happy and loving. The me in me says I would just shut him out like he has done to me. I need to do everything I can do to emotionally divorce myself from this man. To make it easier to do what I will most likely need to do in the next year any how. Move on without him.
Ironically, I don't have to even worry about how to act if he calls, do I?
((Opti)), Might I suggest going back and reading Michelle's article on the Walk Away Wife because that last post exhibits many characteristics in it. As for
Quote: how seriously unhappy and ignored wives can get their husband's attention before they decide to give up and leave. And you know what...nobody has a freaking answer. Not even the LBS men.
As a LBS man I can tell you how my attention was gotten and life behavior changed occurred. It was when my W filed for D. Unfortunately, in my case, she had already decided to give up and move on and didn't realize the change in men (me) was permanent like Michelle says it can be. Believe she realizes it now but is not ready to admit it (except to me on summer vacation) and considers not going through moves/jobs/other MLC issues the easier path.
In your case you could say you filed or actually file which can be retracted later but the problem with that is you're staring down the abyss if it doesn't work and that what makes it so hard for so many to pull that trigger. Just would not like to see you check out and get past the point of no return with H never even knowing its happening like in my instance.
Please realize I'm certainly not encouraging anything, just noting observations and recommend you read the article and Michelle's other work. Don't let concerns about moving or jobs drive the decision would be my other advice, you have control and every day is an opportunity. RonJon
I did go back and read that WAW article. I've read it before. At first, I just thought "yeah, yeah, I know this, so where's the answer, where's the one thing a soon to be WAW needs to do to get her H's attention?" Of course, IF it's even possible for any particular soon-to-be WAW to get her H's attention, the one thing that will work is up and leaving. But then, if it's not possible to get his attention, all you've done is up and leave. And you better be prepared to stay gone, or you're really in for a lifetime of painful repetition.
In my case? I really have no reason to believe H would come running after me. I've never seen him fight for anything he believed in or wanted. It's entirely possible that he might have regrets and heartache if I told him it was over. But that wouldn't equal any action what so ever on his part. He is better at accepting sacrafice and a raw deal than anyone I know. But he is horrible at failure. He refuses to even chance it. If you don't try, you can't lose. That's always been his MO.
More of my crappy attitude today, I'm afraid. But I do have one little glimmer of wisdom that occurred to me yesterday. And it was strenthened by reading that article you suggested. So thanks for that.
Anyway that glimmer is that telling H that I have doubts that we will be able to re-establish our M would be a 180 for me.
There was a time, when we were living together and things were rocky, that I told H I was unhappy and things weren't right. His response what that is was my problem, and I just had to accept the way he was, and that I would get over it. Typical LBH response to the soon-to-be WAW.
But, since we split, I have never expressed any doubt that we could work it out. I certainly have had plenty of doubt. But I've never said anything about it.
I had one phone consult with a DB coach and she mentioned something called one-downmanship (as in the opposite of one-upmanship). And I had already seen this work with H with my writing hobby. He constantly put it down, so I just acted more self-confident in defense of myself, so he tried harder to tear me down... Then years later, after we separated and moved apart, I mentioned that I was too scared to do an open mic event and didn't have anything good enough to read. Suddenly he was my cheerleader and praise for my writin for the very first time. And I hadn't even meant to play one-downmanship.
I hear a lot of LBS women talk about always trying to be positive with their H's and tell them anything can be done, and rah, rah, rah... And their H's get more negative the harder the W tries. This is so true between H and I. But, theoretically, if you upset the balance, and show your insecurity and doubt, it gives them an opportunity to rush in and start cheering instead.
And here, I will point to one of my H's wonderful qualities, which is sometimes hard to do on this board...when I have been sick H will go to the store at any hour of the night. He will spoon feed me medicine (yes-literally and I've never felt so loved). He will come in and check on me. When I once came home crying from work because it was so bad, he just curled up next to me on the coach.
But these things didn't have anything to do with him. The last time I talked to him on the phone I was vulnerable and crying (not hard, or begging, or hysterical) and said it didn't seem like he wanted to see me on his leave-he had nothing for me. Cold as ice. I guess that is about his guilt though.
I might be up for expressing my concern about us ever working things out sometime after H gets his orders this winter. I don't know if expressing my doubts would give him an opening to come to the rescue or make him defensive. But at this point, I don't see H teetering on the edge of filing himself-so if his reaction isn't good, it's probably not irreversable.
I wouldn't bring up D because I wouldn't be ready for that until I was self-sufficient again. But, to me, we either live together at H's next unit or we end the M. The move might not happen immediately after H transfers or the D may not happen immediately after it's clear we won't be living together. But one of the other will have to happen.
That one-downsmanship reminds me of something else I read in the DBing book. When there is one spouse (usually H) that always complains and is negative, usually the W tries to cheer them up or say things aren't so bad which usually doesn't work (cheesless tunnel) but when the W does a 180 and says something like, "you're absolutely right, that (your job, anything to pick from) stinks and your work stinks and even more so than you say." it can turn them onto a "wait, it's not really that bad" type of mode that may end up making them more positive overall. Don't know if it will work in your case Opti, but some thing that came to mind. RonJon
If you're done and tired of limbo then yes, you need to decide your next step. But it seems your goal right now is to 180 or downmanship to get some communication going or a response from your H. True?
I remember those times too when H was so attentive and took care of me when I was sick or if my back went out or after surgery. He was so great, and I am not a good patient. Now I feel like I can't even share my health issues with him, he doesn't care. I did mention my obvious hot flash one time when he was present, he looked at me like I was an alien but did say 'oh, starting menopause?' Sweet.
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
Yes, Ron Jon, know that you mention it, I remember that story in the DB book too.
Another thing came to mind...someone on the board posted about "releasing" his WAW. He just told her one day that he let her go. No anger. Just told her, that he knew it was her wish, so he released her.
I'm thinking about doing something like this with H. The difference is, I guess, that H hasn't expressed a wish to leave. But, he hasn't expressed a wish to be together.
Maybe when we get to the point of talking about his transfer again (which could be months), I will do this. I don't think that I want to re-ask my question about whether he WANTS us to live together again. So, I'll just have to wait until the moment is right, I guess.
Quote: I remember those times too when H was so attentive and took care of me when I was sick or if my back went out or after surgery. He was so great, and I am not a good patient.
I'm a great patient! I just wish H was. I try to return the favor, and I just end up feeling useless and like I can't do anything right.
