Good for you, Opti. Make your moves based on what will be good for you. You moved to where you are for family support, and now you're ready to move again to where you can grow and flourish. If H doesn't live with you, married or not, why would it matter to him where you live? wouldn't it be just a plane ticket for him if he decides to see S4? Your sitch is different because H doesn't see S4 now except for his leaves, which doesn't seem to make a difference anyway.
If H does show up before his leave is over, there's no reason for you to be nice or kind to him. But what are your alternatives and what would that accomplish?
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
So I finally got an email from H last night telling me what he bought for S4's birthday and that he would be here early this evening. He hasn't signed off "with Love" for a month or more, so I don't know why it should still bother me that he didn't this time. Just making sure I know what his atitude is going to be I guess.
I'm not looking forward to this at all. I'd almost prefer that he didn't come at all. It would make it easier for me to get on with what I have to get on with. But, I know that S4 needs to see him.
No matter how much advanced warning I get that H has gone cold again, it's still going to hurt to see it in person. All these things I hadn't considered before start popping up. Like is he going to get a hotel room? If he stays in this house is he going to sleep on the sofa? My sofa is really too small for that. But I can't see him sleeping with me. What's he going to be like when he knocks on the door. Is he going to act as cold as he did when he dropped the first bomb, or is he going to be the polite shy guy he was when he visited a year after that bomb?
And what is my reaction going to be? I'm not even telling myself how to act at this point. I'll wait and see how I react at the time. Which ever way I react, I don't expect H will suddenly turn into the man S4 and I need, so it doesn't really matter.
My first gut reaction - act just as normal with your everyday life as any other day, act like you think he will be staying at your house, sleeping in your bed, doing things as a family. Have you scheduled some time off of work now for this week? Even if it isn't spent with H as a family, won't it be nice to have S4 with H while you get some pamper time for yourself?
Most important!! don't let your nerves get in the way of being natural.
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
Did H give any indciation of how long he will be staying? I know this is going to be hard on you, but at least he is making the effort to see his son. Hopefully once you are in the same room you will know the right thing to say.
I'll be thinking of you and your are in my prayers.
Me 54 DS19 and DS17 Married 06/1989 Divorced 01/2011
Yes, I did schedule these entire two weeks off, but then I canceled some and will be working half weeks instead so I can save some vacation for a trip to Seattle.
On the phone, when I pushed, H said he was going to spend 2 weeks with S4. So I imagine that means he plans to be here atleast through S4's birthday which is next weekend for the party and next Wednesday for the actual day.
So, H did show up yesterday evening. S4 and I were just coming back from a walk when H pulled in. When I told S4 his daddy was here he was so excited and started peddling extra fast on his little bike. Then when he got to his dad he put on his "unimpressed" face and practically ignored H. He acted this way for the first hour or two. S4 does this a lot to everyone but me. He can't wait to see them (grandma, uncles, friends) then when he meets up with them he won't speak to them or look at them until he's good an warmed up. So, maybe this behavior of acting totally untouchable by people who mean the most to you must be a genetically inhereted thing he got from H. A wierd protective mechanism. I sure hope S4 doesn't take it to extremes like his dad.
After trying to get a "Hi" out of S4, H came over and kissed my cheek and gave me a hug. So, he came as the polite, shy guy not the cold guy. I hung back and let him and S4 interact. H looked around the house we bought a little, then asked if I had any adult beverages. I suggested S4 and H play together while I went to the store and picked up drinks and some other things I'd run out of. But H asked S4, "do you want us all to go to the store, mommy and daddy and you?" So we all went. It was nice to go grocery shopping together again, that used to be pretty much our only family outing, when it happened. And S4 has NEVER been so well behaved before. It was as if he was trying to impress his dad by showing him what a good boy he is.
We stayed up really late waiting for S4 to fall asleep on the couch, then stayed up a little later watching TV and making a little conversation here and there. Finally, I didn't want to play the waiting game anymore and started going up to bed. I just came out and asked him if he was sleeping there on the couch and if I could get him a blanket and pillow. I thought he said he didn't want any covers, so I went upstairs to get them for him anyway. When I was coming back downstairs he was coming up. I asked if he was sleeping upstairs and he said "yeah."
It didn't take more than a few minutes before we ML. I had to push a few thoughts out of my head, but it was nice because H has always been very loving in bed.
So, his visit is going suprisingly well. But, it's a little strange. Because even though we are sharing this time together, it doesn't change anything. I know by now that he isn't committed to us being together as a family. If anything, this loving interaction between us making the thought of moving across country and starting a new life easier. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because I don't feel like I have to deal with the end of the M at the same time. Maybe it's because I have more confidence that the end of the M (if it comes-I'm still leaving room for it) might well happen on my terms, when I'm ready. Maybe it's because I'm growing thicker skin and am more comfortable with the idea that H does love S4 and I very much and will always love us, even if and when the M is over. Something slightly comforting in that.
The only thing that this positive interacting with H changes, is how I'll feel about telling H my plans to sell the house and move. I feel like that would be a bucket of ice water right now. The very soonest I would mention it would be the end of his visit, if then. I will probably wait and do it over email. And maybe I'll even wait until I have an actual job offer. Although I'd like to atleast give H the opportunity to put Seattle on the places he would like to transfer, if he would choose to do that.
Well that's enough play by play for today. I need to get off the boards and finish another application I have going.
Well HOORAY for your H!!! he did a much better job than you did! So what's up with that? I know you had your defenses up, but to let it show like you did?
Quote: I just came out and asked him if he was sleeping there on the couch and if I could get him a blanket and pillow.
Gee, ya think you could make it any tougher for him? and the grocery store without him, and hanging back. He really hung in there while you made it difficult.
Opti, just try to relax and have a good time while you have this opportunity and enjoy H and let him create and remember good times with you and S4. Don't plan the future with or without him, yet. Ok? hugs to you.
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
Opti I just wanted to add that when my son's were very little (especially my oldest who is "Mommy's Boy") and H would return from being underway DS12 would be very excited about Daddy coming home, but then would have nothing to do with H when he actually got home. At the same time, he would cry if H left his sight.
I feel for your DS.
As far as H, I think he did pretty good. A thought occured to me while reading about it.
Is it possible that while he is away from you he gets crazy thoughts of you not wanting him, or being better off with out him?
I remember on some of those long patrols, my mind would play horrible tricks on me and until I heard from H, I could think up some really wild things. Of course this was in the days prior to email and we could truly go weeks without him being able to call.
Not excusing him, but like a said.... just a thought.
Me 54 DS19 and DS17 Married 06/1989 Divorced 01/2011
WCW-well, I suppose you're right about H doing a better job of "act as if." He always has. I'm just plain old bad at it.
Something NNP said was exactly right on...
Quote: Is it possible that while he is away from you he gets crazy thoughts of you not wanting him, or being better off with out him?
It's not only possible, it's a fact. And not just while he's away from me, while I'm laying right there by his side telling him I love him. I've tried to convince him otherwise many, many, many times. And you'd think just the fact that I'm still here after all that's happened would convince him. But, no. It's not something I control. He has a horrible self-esteem and issues with depression. Sometimes I know he knows I love him. But, other times he is in a space where he knows that I shouldn't be with a guy like him and no one can convince him otherwise. It's been like this since before we were married.
It's like beating my head against the wall.
I got the very distinct impression during our last phone conversation that H was trying to get me to move on without him. And finally I'm at the place where I'm ready to accept that I can't fix his problems and if he doesn't think I should be with him, maybe I shouldn't.
He's openly admitted that he has intentionally treated ex-girlfriend's very bad in order to get them to leave him. He thinks if he isn't the one to make the break, he doesn't get the blame. I remember getting a very bad feeling the day he told me about that.
But, now that he's here, he has sure got his "Act as if" hat on. He's made all these comments about big improvements to the house. He knows I want a better job so he's asking me about applying for things around here. He was even on my university's website and found a Dean position open and asked me what the chances were that I would get it! Unfortunately, I had to say "none, because I'm not a faculty member and have never taught a class in my life."
My mom has been calling asking to get together for dinner and I've just told her that I don't know. When the H, S4 and I went grovery shopping the night he arrived I saw a woman from my writer's group. We were talking and H had so many things in his hands he finally had to walk back up to the cart. I introduced them and H shook her hand. Then he turned away and hunkered up his shoulders and wouldn't look at us. He looked so miserable. I tried to end the conversation as quickly as I could. It's just a reminder that H is horribly intoverted and hates, hates, hates meeting anyone new, especially someone I know first. Yet he is so concerned with what people think. He probably wonders if I've told them about what's going on between us and what they think of him, even though he'd never admit to that.
But when it's just us, we have been having a good time. Yesterday we took S4 to a children's museum and it was a lot of fun. Although there are still no ILYs which does bother me a little. I had taken my wedding ring off after our phone conversation and haven't put it back on. He doesn't wear one eiither.
I'm not too wound up about it yet, but certainly when he leaves I will be in a quandry about how to tell H about my ideas of moving out west (note I said ideas and not plans-I'm waffling already). It will take a little time to figure out how this visit impacts all that, if at all.
Reading back over this I can see how much I'm trying to protect myself from him by listing more negatives than positives. It is really nice that we are interacting this way. Yesterday on the way back from the museum I got us horribly lost. Neither of us are very decisive drivers and if there was a wrong turn to take, I took it. Between the two of us AND a map we wasted 40 minutes driving in circles. But, we never once got irritated at each other. It was just funny how blatantly incompetent I am when it comes to finding my way around and how incredibly unwilling H is to make a decision about something he could be held accountable for later (like what exit to take, or whether to end a M).
Quote: H doing a better job of "act as if." He always has. I'm just plain old bad at it.
I think there is a difference. H is acting as if he is married and you are acting as if you don't expect to be. If that is what you are feeling, then your next part makes a lot of sense.
Quote: I got the very distinct impression during our last phone conversation that H was trying to get me to move on without him. And finally I'm at the place where I'm ready to accept that I can't fix his problems and if he doesn't think I should be with him, maybe I shouldn't.
It's not just you, sounds like it is any R he's been in. You know his insecurities, you know he needs WOA. It can be a real drain to be the base on solid ground to hold H up. You can't fix him, but you can support him.
Quote: He's made all these comments about big improvements to the house.
Nail him down while he's there. Get the commitment now before he's gone again and you return to your semi dark relationship with hardly any communication. Take full of advantage of this 24/day right now.
Quote: He knows I want a better job so he's asking me about applying for things around here
and then
Quote: when he leaves I will be in a quandry about how to tell H about my ideas of moving out west
Don't wait. If I would put your H's shoes on, I'd feel almost betrayed if you sprung this on me after I was thousands of miles away again after we had a nice visit on my leave with you.
Quote: Reading back over this I can see how much I'm trying to protect myself from him by listing more negatives than positives.
Yup, I do the same thing. If I only think positives, I get plumb scared of letting myself get caught up that everything is fine and it will all work out. We are protecting ourselves from more pain. Someday I hope I can just open the gate and let all the positives flow and forget the negatives, maybe then I will be on the real path to reconstruction with H. What do you want to do?
Quote: I got us horribly lost
No kidding? you took a wrong turn? (private joke)
You know, overall it sounds like once this visit got underway it's been real good. Focus on that. How long will H be there yet? This is against the DB rules, but you're so close to throwing in the marriage towel I think you should get your courage up and get out your list of 'issues' and get it all out now with H while he is there. If you don't do it now, you'll go back to a very frustrated Opti that thinks there is no choice but to move on and away from M to the west coast. JMO, which can easily be tied to an anchor and tossed overboard.
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
Opti, Sounds like the visit is going well for the most part.
Quote: when he leaves I will be in a quandry about how to tell H about my ideas of moving out west" ---- Don't wait. If I would put your H's shoes on, I'd feel almost betrayed if you sprung this on me after I was thousands of miles away again after we had a nice visit on my leave with you.
This is one of those tough nuts to crack, do you want to spoil the nice visit now by bringing up something you know will cause problems or wait until he's back in a comfortable environment where he'll have support? Sounds like you are coming to a crossroads with decisions to make. Do you think that through DBing and whatever else you can change to where your H changes his ways? And if not are his ways something you can live with indefinitely? Would he consider a move/job a possibility or is he strickly looking for jobs in that area? From my experience, I was blindsided by W and yes it hurt but in retrospect did enjoy the final months/weeks more and had to have the separation for real change to take place in me. Even the most dense guys (like me) can tell when things are not "right" with the W. Have you considered you two going to see a counselor while he's there to try and work through some of the issues (i.e. ILU, rings, etc.)? That's the one thing I would have done differently was go to see someone earlier. There is a website (www.militaryonesource.com) that can refer you up to six sessions with a civilian counselor at no charge. Something to think about.
I'm one that likes to leave options open when possible and would say to hold off talking to him about the move west until you know what you want to do. Good Luck, RonJon
(private joke)