Thanks LIN, I know you not telling me what to do, just giving me your opinoins.
This is what I am considering; he has to go get fingerprinted tonight for his job. Since my parents will be here I am thinking of calling him and asking him if I could come with him and then maybe we could go somplace to talk afterwards. I would like to say something like "I think we should take some time to talk about our future."
If you do, make sure he is in the right state of mind. My wife and I had the R talk. Neither us were in the right state of mind, and it did not go well.
Sometimes it's not what you say or how you say it. It's when you say it.
Ok, I just called him to see how his day was going. He sounded pretty happy and upbeat and talked to me for while (didn't sound annoyed that I called). I suggested that I tag along with him and we go out tonight he said ya, that sounds like a good idea.
I don't know, sometimes I think I am my own worst enemy spinning scenarios in my mind. I probably won't bring anything up about us as it will probably feel like I trapped him in order to confront him. I want him to feel safe around me and open up if he wants to.
In the meantime, I sure hope my neighbor has a conscience and tells me what H said. Somehow I don't think he will.
Mamabear, Before you talk to your H there is a really good book by Michelle. It is called "How to Get Through to the Man You Love" or "A Woman's Guide to Changing Her Man" (different titles same book). Men don't do well with the "talk".
Just some food for thought. ST
At the bar the Judge will not look us over for medals, degrees, or diplomas, but for scars. - Hugh B. Brown
Hi MamaBear, I am sorry you have been suffering today. I have been obsessing a bit too - yuck! As if I don't have better things to do. So... I don't recommend the R talk. Especially not when you have been obsessing/dwelling on H. However, I do have a few suggestions. Make a list of pros and cons for your current sitch. Take a piece of paper, divide it in half vertically, and write the pros on one side, the cons on the other. When your cons side of the list is a lot heavier than your pros side of the list, it will then be time to take some action, for you. You could use that list as a launching point for a rational discussion, about what's not working for you. Then you could explain to H that unless something happens to rebalance the scales, you are prepared to take action steps to end your R and have him move out. If you are not ready to take action steps, because the cons are outweighing the pros, then you are not ready to have any kind of talk, and you are choosing for things to remain as they are. I have found out the hard way, that R talks don't help anything if I initiate them, unless I am prepared to follow up with action. Otherwise an R talk just confirms a bunch of stuff that I really already know is going on, and I don't want to hear. Only if I am ready to do something about it, would make "one last" R talk worthwhile. Otherwise, as was said before, it is pursuing - trying to get H to do something, say something, etc. that he has not volunteered on his own.
What I think is going on for you today, is emotions and a feeling that you deserve more (and better) from H. And you do! But you are the one that has to decide if this is a temporary phase with H, or if he will go on indefinitely like this. And when enough is enough, for you. In my sitch, for example, I have decided that H is in MLC, and that the A is a temporary situation which can not and will not last. However, to make this palatable for me (since H moves slower than I do) I have needed to set a timeline for myself. That does not mean I can not extend it. For example, my initial "review of my sitch" date was June. However, in May, I decided I would do nothing before July (for various reasons). In july I prayed hard, and the message I got was that sometime between December and March, my sitch will become clearer and I will know what to do. Timing is everything. Also in my mind, I have decided that 2007 August is an absolute deadline for me to see some committed movement towards me by H, or for me to move on without him. Right now I am hopeful that the spring 2007 will turn the tide. But I am also open to reevaluating again if my sitch becomes unbearable to me, and also I suppose when August rolls around I could still decide something else again. Anyway, I am suggesting that you manage your emotions with as much logic and action as you can muster. Work on yourself, set some goals, write them down, review them, remind yourself, prioritize them, etc. This will help you take control, as you REALLY do have control over what will happen, not just H. And you can decide when you have "had enough". But be logical about it, because every day there are 1,000,000,000 reasons that we can find to react. And obsess in our heads. Some of it is current, some of it is past. But none of it will help us at all.
Good luck Mama. I know how you feel. I have been thick in it in my head today also. Really thick, actually for days. I just need to take some of my own advice I guess
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
Hey gal! Glad to read your thread. So, what happened last night? I know posting for you now is a little harder since you have mobs of family over...
If you have not, then I suggest no R talk this week. It's hard to get all emotional and come back to a house full of family and act as if. It puts both of you in undue pressure....like you need more of that now?!
My R talks with H have always been ones that I did not plan out so much....just a general idea in my head. I started the ball rolling, and let him take the lead. Talked gently, openly, calmly. Mostly just listened. You'll be surprised what comes out. I used to think I had to harp on how much I disapproved of things, how he had to be in the R, work on the R, all that. He knows that, all our spouses do. They did not lose the concept of M, they only pretend to, or are in a fog. Your H knows what he's doing is NOT OK, and he's not comfortable with it. So, repeating that is just a waste and pressuring and ineffective for him...you get the same response. From your previous conversations, they are ones where Mama is fed up, drops it on H, he says nothing is going on, I love you and will work on M. Then he doesn't.
So, in the spirit of 180's, how about approaching the R talk differently. Also, as I recall, months ago, he said he would go to a C...did you fix that appt? It shows that you listened to him, and take it seriously that he wants to talk to you in a safer context than just alone with you.
How about not asking him direct questions ("do you want the M") that you know the answers to....how about asking general questions...("how are you feeling? are you doing well? you mentioned last time being tired and angry....explain that, I want to understand you....how can I help")
You get the gist. It seemed to me that your H opened up a little more (angry and tired comments) in the last conversations. This means he's going in the right direction. The fact that he talked to the neighbor also means the same thing....he's coming out and facing things, and it's getting to weigh on him. Be the open ear....no the W that states the obvious about marital outcome. Jus tbe silent, and he WILL speak. My H clammed up hard, and it was b/c I hammered him with questions and my opinions. Now, I ask vague questions and just listen....slowly it all comes out. I don't react very much, except the neutral validation. Above all, my tone of voice and calmness is BIG for him.
So, make the conversation not another ultimatum talk, threat talk, stating what Mama thinks talk....but the goal should be just to get H to open his feelings a little, however productive that is, it's great.
Quote: also think if he is willing to say "It isn't what you think." then he should be willing to tell you both what he thinks your thinking (he could be using this to ease his own guilty conscience and feel he isn't lying)....and then to tell you what the heck he really is doing! and what he THINKS he is doing.....
Mama, I TOTALLY agree with this. I don't know if a R talk is going to be the right thing for you right now, but I would damn sure ask this man WTH IS going on if he says it's not what you think. Again, simply asking him "Ok, if it's not what I think, first of all, tell me what YOU think I think it is, and then tell me what it really is." would not be out of bounds. I think you REALLY need to take the DB leash off and let that one fly, but then again, maybe I'm just being emotional on your behalf, lol.
Hi All, Thank you for caring enough for checking in with me. I ALWAYS know who I can count on for advice and encouragement, as well as "friendship"
Ok, last night we went out to a local bar, one that we have never been to before. Had a really nice time talking. I tried to stay clear of talking about the kids. H played some songs on the jukebox, mostly that we liked when we first met. I felt that it was very sentimental. I did not initiate a R talk, I did not want to spoil the mood. At one point he did mention how he thought it was so weird that he now likes hanging out in bars. He said he could sit there for hours, like he did over the winter. I was like, huh? He said, you know, on Saturdays I would go to a bar after work around noon and sit and drink and play video games till midnight. Then I was so drunk that I would sleep in my car. I said it must feel good to sometimes escape reality, he said that was exactly how it felt for him. He said sometimes it is just too much, responsibilities, bills, kids, the house, etc. that it just is so much easier to sit in a bar and drink than to face all of those things.
It sounds a little bit like MLC to me, what do you all think?
Today he was off, helped my B move out of his condo. Tomorrow we will be helping him, his wife and kid move into a house about 5 min. from us. I am very excited. My H was a total gentleman the whole day.
Oh ya, last night before he went to bed he hugged me goodnight, I turned his face to me and kissed him on the lips, not once but twice.
Tonight when he went to bed we hugged and kissed on the lips again.
And another thing, as far as my neighbor, he claims to not have any recollection of any conversation with my H regarding our R. Says he was too drunk. It doesn't matter. I will not give up on my M. I love my H with all of my heart. I will continue to let him travel this road on his own and be his rock. The person that he knows he can always count on and will love him unconditionally.
