Yes, GH, I think you're right here. I have been looking at too many of the details that I think need changing and postponing working on the bigger issues because of it. I have to keep that in mind and work towards goals rather than endlessly churning through thoughts in my head.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Quote: I'm dedicated to persisting on this path. Hopefully it's not too late and I'm not committing to misery.
I know you really didn't mean for it to, but this kinda goes in line with what I posted about the things we are now trying to change that used to be truly "ok". The point is that you don't HAVE to be miserable or upset over certain parts of your W's behavior just because we say you should be, or some book does. Don't fall into the trap of believing that her "messed up" actions are ALL bad just because they don't fit with how we are now led to believe our spouses should act. Some of it just may be her personality, which, thinking back, actually made you fall in love with her in the first place.
I meant more that my W has made up her mind and that by continuing to try and save the marriage will be a miserable experience. I know that I can both be happy while trying to follow my convictions, but I haven't been all that successful lately. I thought I was doing great, and I have had such a positive experience, but interaction with my W have affected me negatively. She told me last night that I wasn't happy. It's sad that I find myself happier when we're not together. Well, I'm dedicated to continuing to try, and I'm dedicated to being happy myself. I find myself questioning whether I have it in me.
I accept and love my W for who she is. I think a lot of the problems in our interactions come from her stuff, but I love her for it none-the-less.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Last night W told me that I wasn't meeting her emotional needs - something she didn't realize until they were being met by someone else. She wouldn't tell me what they are, and she thought that is was something I should just know ("if you're the right person, you'll know"). It's almost impossible to try and meet these needs while she's not interested in letting me. I've got to try and find out what her LL is (something that I have not been able to - I always thought it was acts of service, and I feel like I always waited on her hand and foot, but this clearly didn't do it).
When W and I got together there wasn't a real courtship period, we just liked spending time together. Things moved so fast that I don't think I could ever recreate that stage in our lives without her feeling the same way about me. We used to really talk a lot - and even into our relationship right up to the point the A rocked my world - we talked about everything. I thought we had a really intimate relationship. The resentment stemmed from the mundane interactions, the low level stuff that told her that I thought my way was right, so she felt like she was wrong. I guess I never went out of my way to engage with her in adult activities, going out as a couple, etc. She feels like we're so stuck in the parental roles that there's nothing left. I don't know if I can get her to go do stuff with me - she's told me that she hasn't wanted to spend time alone with me in a long time, that she'd rather have someone else with us.
I feel so cornered, and I think the fear of being proven wrong is paralyzing me. So I've blamed her - and even in my posts here, I blame her and haven't taken responsibility for getting into her head, figuring out where I've gone wrong, and DOING what I can to fix it. I can't get past the resentment I have to really honestly do this. Everytime I think I have done this, I look back and see some action of mine that I have some how justified in what she's doing. I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want this to be the motivating factor in my interactions. I want to just get beyond this and really heal. The worst thing is that THIS makes the damage something that has been done by me. I could have made a difference already, but I have been so caught up in fighting against my own feelings that I haven't taken the risks and reached out to her. I haven't made the effort to give her what she needs.
Everytime I think I've gotten past it and detached, I've moved out of the realm of the R. I have detached from actually demonstrating my undying committment to the M. I have not actively sought ways of demonstrating my love. I have made changes in myself that needed to be made. I have become a better person. But I look like a selfish man who doesn't care about the relationship. I know I'm too far into my W's perspective now, and a lot of her own justifications have created this reality, but it's where she's coming from, so I need to look at it for what it is. What can I DO to demonstrate all that I now understand without coming across as judgemental? I honestly don't want her to be wrong, I just want her to be able to reconcile her current worldview with what we have, to be able to see them in the same light. I want her to see me as an attractive person who is attracted to her, a beautiful woman. All the words in the world don't tell her this. I need to do something to make her feel this way. Or am I taking too much on here? More than any one person can do? I recognize her involvement, but I need to try myself to do what may be futile without her involvement. I have been discounting trying by telling myself that it doesn't work, it's not DB. I really need to do this in a way I can be accountable for it. Any ideas?
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Muddle, I read your first two paragraphs and thought I was reading about my sitch! Exactly the same stuff. You get trapped into that parent thing and the R suffers. I too did not push for time together, she did sometimes but left it entirely to me to set up etc. I know you are feeling guilty about your part in this BUT a R is two people, it is the dynamic between two people. It is not one or the others "fault" (unless there is abuse, addiction etc.) What our W's did was walk away from the R rather than do the hard work. That is fact! You and I are staying and trying to repair the past and make a better future, and we are doing it alone. It is also important to realize that every emotional need cannot be met by one person, my W doesn't get that. I cannot make her happy. If that is what is required to stay married, it won't happen. People have to be reasonable and right now our S's are far from that. Your thoughts about trying to spend some time together are good. I have just done that in my R and, to my surprise, it has been met with acceptance. Take walks together, read together, go to a movie, the beach etc. I've said elsewhere that I approached my W about taking dance lessons with me. She agreed. It was something she always wanted us to do and I always said "forget it". Now that I have GAL I'm far more open and therefore willing to give it a whirl. We will now be spending one evening out together, without kids, every week. Will it make a dif? Who knows but what the heck. Hope my thoughts help in some way. Ya, you messed up a bit but so has she and everyone else! Go easy on yourself.
When your wife goes to the Dr would she say: "something is wrong and I'm not going to tell you what my symptoms are. It's up to you to figure it out by just looking at my outsides. If you were the right doctor you'd know what is wrong with me!"
Of course not but that is what they say to us in their "crazed" state. Don't beat yourself up. Easier said than done.
Patience is not only a virtue, sometimes it is an impossibility.
Helinka, Fantastic comparison! I love it. It's right on. My W would argue that because we've been together for 17 years I should know what she needs, if not, we don't belong together! Sound familiar Muddle?
Yes, of course you guys are right, but I think what looks like beating myself up is me getting more real with myself. I'm getting a layer down now. I realized last night that I have screwed myself out of many opportunities because I haven't worked hard enough. I was a smart kid in school and could skate by without working. I think this became a really bad habit, and I see this pattern throughout my life. My intelligence will get me by, and sometimes I need to work really hard at crunch time. I have fooled myself into believing that I have worked hard so far - and in some ways I have - but I haven't done the hard work where it counts. That's what I'm trying to get at now. This isn't something that I can correct overnight, but it's something that will really benefit me to resolve. I really want this family to survive. I really want this marriage to survive. I want both to thrive, and I will do anything to make this happen. As my wife would say: stop talking about it and actually DO it. That's where I am now. I need to be focused and really work.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
I think it is wonderful to focus and get down to work! How you motivate yourself is whatever works for you. If kicking your own a** works then go for it, Muddle. Just don't be too harsh on yourself. All of us are playing a game where we didn't make up the rules and don't really know how to play anyway. We're fumbling around in the dark. Be gentle but, yes, get real focused! It's really hard to get past the "feeling" aspect of what has happened, the resentment, hurt, anger, sadness and helplessness. It gets in the way all the time. But, being aware of it and how it effects our functioning in the sitch is paramount. You, Muddle, are on top of that baby now. So set those goals and go for it! Just remember, you are a hero! In all our sitch's it would be understandable and acceptable to bail. We have decided to take the most difficult route by staying. We are fighting for what is right, our M's and families. That is what a hero is Muddle. My oldest D (12), when I discussed mom and dad's sitch with her as best I could (she overheard a loud argument and needed reassurance), said "You are my hero, daddy, you never give up!" I hold those words in my heart and when times get tough I think of them. Muddle, you are that hero to your family too. God knows, it would have been easy to bail but you didn't. Keep us posted, there's lots of us rooting for you out here!
Thanks Whatis, that's great motivation. Yesterday was kind of an awakening for me. I realized a lot about how I was deceiving myself and that if things should end now I can't say that I really tried my hardest. So, regroup and take another approach.
I realized that one of the bigger issues with my W is that she nags me. She nags, I withdraw and ignore her. Two problems with this: 1. the things she's nagging me about are things I should do, and if she wasn't nagging me I would do them much sooner myself and 2. When I don't do what she thinks/knows is right it makes her feel insecure about her own perception. It invalidates her feelings. So, I decided that it's important to understand her feelings as motivating factors and to address them in my actions. We have a wedding this weekend and I pulled out my old suit, which surprisingly fits again. The jacket was really wrinkled and I told her I had to iron it. She told me to take it to the cleaners and have them press it. I said I could save a buck and do it myself. Well, she nagged me all weekend to bring it in and have it done. Yesterday I took it in to get it done. Last night, I called her and thanked her for pushing me to get it done, telling her that I appreciate that this save me some time and effort. I think it conveyed to her that her ideas are good ones and that I respect her. Another example: she told me the other day that "I put the bowls in the dishwasher this way" and my internal reaction was "that's nice, I don't - I do them the way I do" but I realized that while I CAN do things differently than she does, I don't have to. I am secure enough in myself that I don't need to prove myself right by always doing what I want to - she needs the reassurance that her way is right. She needs this validation, so why not do it? Maybe it's silly stuff, but I think it's a start down the right path.
I think it's the little things like this that really show her I respect and value her. The way I was doing it, I showed her that I thought she was stupid, or I disagreed with everything she said or thought. It's going to take a lot to change this, because I can be stubborn, and one of the things I really like about myself is how resourcesful I can be - I usually think things through and do things the way I think makes the most sense in the moment (I'm not a stickler for convention or routine). This drives my W crazy, so I'm going to play the game and see if I can help her feel more secure because of my consistency. I've already laid a good foundation by keeping the house MUCH more picked up than I even did before. This has been a consistant change for months now. She has to have noticed this.
There are a few more things, but overall this is the vein my approach is in. Do you think it's action oriented enough?
Just an aside that I thought people here would appreciate: Monday night while we had the talk, W complained about how she felt I was punishing her by not telling her where I was going. I told her "yes, you might be right. I think I have been acting more on my resentment, which is of my own making, than I thought. W, I'm human too, I sometimes act on my feelings even though it's not the right thing to do."
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
