Muddle's Waters II

[Mamabear]

Muddle,
You seem to have your head on straight. I really like what you said here:

I realized last night that I love my W enough to stand by her while she goes through this really difficult time in her life, regardless of where we are headed as a couple. I know she's looking for a lot of answers that only she can find for herself. The only reason I would pull myself out of this relationship is because I want something different for myself. At this point, I think it's far more important to invest myself in loving my W in this deep way, regardless whether she returns it, than to run out and try and make a new life for myself. I know I'll be a better person for it, and hopefully, so will she.

I agree with you completely as this too is where I am at. Although there are times when I am angry that I want to give up, I know I am only reacting to my anger. Deep down I do NOT want to give up, I do NOT want to start over with a new life. I have faith that my M will turn around and work out and that I will have been the glue that kept my family together.

[whatisis]

Absolutely right, Mama! That quote from Muddle is pure inspiration for all of us. It really is touching to read, Muddle. Thanks

[MuddleThrough]

Thanks guys, I guess it's almost a delusional romantic sentiment, but one that I plan to live by.

Just a quick comment: at lunch, W was telling me about their morning and all the running around she did. She was bubbly and sounded good. So I told her that she seemed to be doing really well compared to the past few days. She said "haven't you noticed that the past few days I've been great!?!?" to which I replied that I hadn't because she was weird to me everytime we talked. She responded that that was because I pissed her off or frustrated her or something to that effect. I told her I was glad to hear she has been doing well to which she responded that I should have seen it.

So, it's great that she has been doing well, but how am I to know this if she acts nasty and strange to me? I can't, because I only see her when we interact. So, again, I'm the downer in her life now (I can rationalize this as I'm the one that reminds her of the damage she's doing, so I don't make her feel too good). I was upbeat, and I expressed that I was glad she was doing well. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything about her doing well because it may have reminded her that she wasn't doing too well before this, but I wanted her to know that I was noticing her feelings. Anyway - there's not really any significance to this. She's continuing on her path, and I think she's happy to have some direction, to be moving along a path towards something, anything, that might be giving her a way out of the cage that she's in. I hope my support means something to her. I don't know how she can't see that I am sincerely supporting her efforts to get out of this place that she put herself into.

[whatisis]

you're living my life now Muddle! You are supposed to know how they are feeling at all times, it's called mindreading. You paid her a compliment and now she wants to know why there isn't more. Of course, it makes no sense for you to notice how great she feels while she's crapping all over you, but logic is a thing of the past, I think. Hey, maybe crapping on you is what makes her so happy! You've now found that missing ingredient to a happy R together

[MuddleThrough]

A little cynical today, huh, whatis? Really, I know there's little to no sense to it. It's perspective, really. You want to see my true intentions, while she wants to see me as someone that doesn't care about her. You see a compliment, she sees that I don't notice or care about how she's doing. It's all her perspective, and she's got to change it, not me. I just have to keep at being the person I want to be.

[MuddleThrough]

I'm almost ashamed to say it, but last night I went in the recycle bin on the computer at home and found a video. This was a video of my W and my cousin on the train kissing each other. Really nice to watch. I know, I did it to myself. It's interesting the thoughts that raced through my head for the rest of the evening - back and forth. I'm partly happy to have seen it because it helps with detachment and it helps me recognize that I'm not in denial because when I watched it it wasn't shocking or surprising. On the other hand, I found my resolve shaken a little. I looked back on our relationship, especially over the last several months, and saw a lot of bad and little good. I found myself wondering "what am I doing this for? there's got to be someone far better out there for me." I know this is totally reactive, but on some level it's true, I'm just not choosing to make this the reality that I act on right now. I thought about some particular things my W said to me in anger about my character, things like me caving to her meet her every want made her say "why don't you grow a set?" and asking about my pattern of getting into relationships with women who are verbally dominant (this is something I think I have figured out - goes back to my parents' relationship - the woman is very verbal, the male is on the surface somewhat submissive but underneath very much serving himself). She wouldn't tell me what she thought this all meant about me, and I didn't pry too much. I found myself thinking about calling my XGF and talking to her about all of this. We talk every once in a while, and whenever she was in town she would visit with W, S4 and me.

I intellectually know what I'm doing is right for me and in the abstract, for my family. I sort of question whether W and I are "right" for each other. I might be happier with someone who's more balanced. I think now that I really understand the dynamic of my parents' relationship a bit better I might be better able to find a mate who's better suited. More time. It's going to take more time.

I found myself wondering if their relationship really is as real as they say it is, something they are both willing to give up their lives for. I have always thought that at least my cousin wouldn't give up his career to come to the USA for this, but now I really wonder. I know this is stupid again to think about their relationship as THE factor in mine, but I get to this point where it really is. There are problems in my M and this major hurdle preventing solving them. It makes it seem like turning away could be just as easy or more than fixing things. I know it's not, and I'm ignoring the biggest reason to give it my all, my son.

I guess this is all an illustration of thought patterns in my emotional mind - fantasy thoughts of being in a loving relationship to comfort me in my pain, thoughts of escape, rationalizations, justification, blame, excuses. All those factors because deciding to stop fighting is the WRONG choice for me. I know it's a bad choice, that's why I'm starting to rationalize, etc. I shouldn't have to fight myself over this too often. I should know what I'm doing and be totally submerged in it, but yet I feel like I'm in the shallows, barely in to my ankles. I don't know what's holding me back.

[PositivelyListening]

Hi Muddle,

I haven't written to you before but I have been reading you on the boards for a bit, and I am with you. I wanted to reply to you, because I "discovered" some things earlier in the week and last night that sent me down a "what am I doing this for?" kind of tunnel. I have been thinking that we need to protect ourselves more from negative information, the stuff that makes us question our M's. Because if I want eveidence for ending my M, I already had enough on the day of the bomb. Sometimes I worry about "being in denial", that my H "might not be the right one for me" after all, all that stuff. And I dunno, but I think there are always several ways to frame anything. That's why lawyers and therapists get the big bucks. So we have to decide how we want to "frame" our sitches, to make it work for each of us. I read about your sitch, and I think "well, he's got a child - he's trying to preserve a family..." and there are always a million sitches that look better than mine. Except for all the ones that look worse

I think we just need to decide what we want, remain committed to that, and pick up the tools in our environment that support that. I am tempted about gathering information about what H is doing, but then I find out what I find out and it makes me restless, disturbed and unsteady. Am I in denial? Or is my H? And what's the ultimate outcome going to be later, so I know now whether I should stay or leave? LOL.

OK, Muddle, your job and my job today is to focus on the present. Everything in the moment. A lovely flower. A good cup of coffee. A friendly smile. How good it feels to take a shower. The sound of a child's laughter.

Just for today, let's see if that is enough. Are you with me?

[MuddleThrough]

OK, Muddle, your job and my job today is to focus on the present. Everything in the moment. A lovely flower. A good cup of coffee. A friendly smile. How good it feels to take a shower. The sound of a child's laughter.

Just for today, let's see if that is enough. Are you with me?

Absolutely, 100%, agreed. These are the only things that are REAL, not constructs of our own making. Thanks for that.

I have maintained for some time that nothing my W does will change my position. I guess emotions have a way of manipulating the rational mind (as is SO clear in our WASs), and I'm not free of this either. I'm trying to acknowledge these feelings though, because I don't want to get down the road and realize that I've been ignoring my feelings. I want to process them and continue down the road I choose to go down.

PL, thanks for your support. I'd like to know more about your perspective on my sitch, because I read what you wrote about your take and came away with more questions than answers. I'm not sure if you are inferring that my sitch looks better than yours, or if you think I'm only trying to keep my family together, etc. Sometimes when I look at my sitch myself it's so tragic and soap-opera-like that it doesn't seem real. Again, this is the framing we all are capable of doing, and the REAL power we possess over our lives and ultimately determines our ability to be happy. The perspective of other's is always welcome, though, as it helps me grow.

Thanks for dropping by and for your input.

[cat03]

Hey MT, I think we all need jackets (with straps?) we all in the same club. Still purging the "lot" of images/letter I found last Tuesday, thinking "is this really worth it? can't I get someone else?" My H has LOTS of issues, and I find myself thinking how my life would be with a normal guy, I think we are both suffering from the "green grass" envy.
We've worked too hard to get where we are, all that suffering isnt' going to be for nothing darn it! We both need to lay off the "ifs", not good, it makes a path on our brain which will eventually drain our good intentions and energy to fix our Ms.

Let's look at what we have, or else we'll be like the dog who lost the steak in the river when he was trying to reach out the bigger better mirage steak.

[MuddleThrough]

I know, my W is handling all those ifs for us both. She's checking out the grass. I'll wait for the report.

Really, I'm not thinking much about this, I was just journaling some thoughts about it. I'm resolved. I'm convicted. My emotions have little to do with this.

Whatever happens, I will always be thankful that I have this opportunity. I will always find the good in this situation. Every now and again though, the bad does force the mind to feel the opposite through fantasy. This is a natural reaction - defense mechanism if you will. It's important to recognize that as adults we escape reality in fantasy, and the fantasy of something better is a way of escaping the pain, not an indication of what's really out there and what we should strive for. . .