Muddle's Waters II

[believing_isaiah43]

I know there's a need to create MORE distance between us so that a clear decision can be made to reconcile. Does this sound completely foolish?

No. I sometimes think we'll have to D for us to clear the area enough for us to have a new R. Well, perhaps that is foolish, I'm no good benchmark for sane.

Muddle, you are a plethora of wisdom in the midst of your own angst-filled sitch, and I am grateful for you stopping on my curb to help put pressure on my own hemorrhaging emotions.

Just stopping by to sit on your curb for a while in companionable silence.

[StevieRay13]

I truly believe that she needs to learn this if you are ever going to have a fulfilling R. You just need to hope that she realizes that sometime. It can be hard waiting for the other person to get it.

[MuddleThrough]

Thanks BI, I truly appreciate your stopping by. As for the distance, I'm really seeing the need for this more and more, and it ties into what Stevie was saying too. My W needs to grow. She needs to take responsibility for her choices, and stop making excuses or justifying them. I think she really needs some time on her own to do this, because she is truly not in a place to do this now.

Last night, I got home and she was rotten. Not really taking it out on me, but the nasty looks on her face said it all. I asked her what was wrong, and she told me she wasn't feeling well. I told her I was sorry she wasn't feeling well. Then she continued to be kind of nasty, so I asked her again, expressing my concern for her feelings, what was wrong. She got angry this time, telling me that she wasn't feeling well, and I don't listen to her. I told her that I was sorry that she wasn't feeling well and that I had frustrated her, but I wished she wouldn't take it out on me. It seems to me that the past couple of days she has been getting angry with me because I haven't been able to make her feel what she thinks she should. I think she wants me to make her feel something so she'll have more reason to stay, but the fact that I haven't been bending over backwards to live my life for her seems to be something she's resenting. She got angry at me because she has to sleep on the blow-up bed downstairs because I won't let her sleep in our bed alone. I told her she's more than welcome to join me there, but if she doesn't want to sleep with me, than she's the one to sleep elsewhere, not me. Again, I don't care about her feelings or well-being. She's really pusing herself to the breaking point, but of course, it's all my fault.

On a somewhat side note, I went and did something dumb. I happened across the fact that now that she's back from this trip with OM she's got a lot of new underwear. I don't know why exactly, but this hurt me to find out. I have always wanted to get her new stuff, get her to try new things, and she has always stuck by her usual style. Well, now she's got a whole bunch of new/different stuff. As if the visions of them doing it together wasn't bad enough, now he's dressing her and she wants it! It makes me angry (I know, it's disguised hurt). I need to distance myself further. I feel like I'm almost at the point where I should stop trying to be nice to her, and I should tell her that I don't want to talk to her about anything other than S4 and finances/family operations.

She's already so resentful of her status in life because she has no car or job or anything, and I don't want to seem like I'm totally washing my hands of everything (maybe that would be good), but I'm starting to feel disconnected from my own actions. I want to be affectionate, but it's not really welcome, and I'm not sure it does any good. I think it keeps us in a certain proximity, and I should be creating more distance to encourage her to step towards me a bit more. Although, as long as the A is her primary motivation/focus, I'm not sure how much closer I want her to be.

Alright, thanks for letting me rant.

[MuddleThrough]

So W just called and said "we need to talk." She's really in a bad place because she wants out, but she doesn't want the consequences of that - she doesn't want to lose our S, she doesn't want me to have to pay child support, we can't afford a divorce, it's going to be really difficult for S4, etc. She said that I wanted to make things work, but she told me that she didn't know how we could do this while she was in love with someone else. I guess I'm going to have to have a conversation with her about all of this, but there's nothing I can say that will really help her. She's really on her own here. She doesn't want to continue living this life, and I'd like to change it too, but she just wants to run. I understand where she's coming from, and I know I just need to give her time. I will do my best to be compassionate, but to be clear about my perspective and intentions. I'm not sure what we can or will agree on, but I will do my best not to contribute to an all out argument. This sitch is so messed up, for everyone, but at the moment, her.

[MuddleThrough]

We had the talk. Seems like something we have done before. She kept telling me that I was standing between her and a happy life. That I wsa causing her all of this pain. "How?" I asked. "I'm not doing anything other than living my life." Well, the gist of it is that she wants to do something definitive to change the situation and make her feel better. She has been looking up divorce, and is very frustrated. She asked me what I would do in a divorce, whether I would fight to have her child taken from her, etc. I told her that I wouldn't be mean or vindictive, but I'm not going to help her out either. It's not what I want. I told her that parameters under which I would be a willing participant (having tried to be happy together, in a good marriage, and it didn't work for either of us). Well, she then told me that because we live in NY state, there's no no fault divorce here. She has NO cause for divorce (while I do) and the ONLY way to get a divorce is to sign a legal separation agreement and be separated for a year. I told her that I don't want to be separated. So now I am literally caging her. How do I open the cage door without doing something that I don't want to do???????

At some point in the convo, she told me that they had an incredible time on the trip, and it drives her nuts because she has been contemplating breaking it off with him since this trip, and she's not quite sure why. She keeps saying that it's because she's looking at the "easy way out". She has been far more miserable than I have ever seen her since she's been back. At one point, she said that "in order for me to move on with this other relationship I have to break it off now." Meaning that in order to divorce the right way she has to satisfy my requirements, but the real reason she wants the divorce is because she wants to continue this A relationship. How mind-bendingly frustrating and painful must it be to have to think like this? I mean she already knows that she'll be causing a lot of damage to our son (she now sees the choice she has to make between OM and S4). I wish there was something I could do to make the M relationship a little more appealing an option to her, but nothing can compare to the fantasy vacation she just returned from, so it's not worth trying. I just need to be me and continue to live my life. She's already planning another trip to see him in Europe in November.

Well, I guess that's the condensed version. Hope someone has some insight for me. I really want more than anything to open the cage door and take the focus off of me. Not sure how I can do this now. . . .

[MuddleThrough]

Oh, BTW I forgot to mention that her therapist wants her to get on medication. She has been on it before and has her reasons for not wanting to be again. I wonder if it will help or not.

Another thing she kept saying, and I know to take this all with a grain of salt, is "do you expect me to just come around? Do you think I'm going to love you again? I have nothing left for you anymore." I told her that I had no idea what to expect. That I was just doing what was right for me right now. I have no idea what will happen, I do have hopes, but I'm not expecting anything.

We talked a lot about choices, and she kept phrasing her statements like "you're not giving me any choices" to which I responded that I don't have the power to give you choices. I can only control what I'm willing to choose, and if this results in a choice you would like to have not being available to you, it's not something I'm taking away.

She told me that she wanted to stay friends through this, but that now I'm making her hate me. Well, I'm going to continue to wait it out. I know it really frustrates her that I'm doing so, but it seems to me to be the only way right now.

[grasshopper]

Muddle, I really feel for you because my W would be in a similar (hell she MAY be in a similar situation and is not telling me) situation if we actually moved towards D. She has no job, never had a job, no money to speak of, etc. She also feels like the kids vs OM was the choice, not necessarily me vs the OM.

Beyond empathizing with you, I don't really have a lot to offer. It SEEMS like you have two choices. 1) Continue doing what you're doing, trying to live your life and wait this out (maybe YOU moving out?) or 2) Actually be the one to file. I know neither one seems appealing right now, but I don't really see another choice. Unfortunately that means you may have accept her blaming you but that's on her. You seem pretty adept at deflecting that to it's rightful place (back to her) so maybe it's not so bad.

I think all things considered, you are doing fine. Just keep posting and we'll keep reading, trying to help any way we can.

GH

[MuddleThrough]

Thanks for your support GH. I'm not really ready to move towards anything, and that's exactly what I told my W yesterday. I told her that there are two paths that we can take, and I'd like to take whichever we choose together, as a cooperative effort at the very least for the sake of our child. That's why I'm not ready for moving forward, because we can't see eye to eye. I know the state of mind my W is in, and I don't think she's competent to make decisions that will impact so many lives right now. I know this is judgemental (and she has been blaming me for NOT being more judgemental of her in the past regarding my "enabling" behavior - in that I didn't recognize she was a victim of her issues and jump in and rescue her), but I am convicted that it's true. We agreed that we wouldn't let this A make or break us at one point. I am still holding myself to that agreement. Since all the talk of divorce is a direct result of her wanting to run off and have this fantasy life with him, all her motivation is suspect. She wants everything to be wrong with us. She wants to see fault in everything because it serves her end. So, unless we can decide the fate of our family on its own merits, I'm not going to move towards anything. I'm just going to keep living. This fool doesn't have the determination to stick this out that I do, and just on that basis there's hope. I don't know that this story will have a happy ending, and I hope W recognizes that her actions all influence our S, and starts to take responsibility for them.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't really have a choice to make. It would be better for the sitch if she could leave at will, thereby making it her choice to stay whenever she does, but things being what they are, it doesn't look like that's really in the cards at the moment. I guess it's just a matter of letting the A fizzle and die and hoping that she and I will be on better footing when it does.

[StevieRay13]

I think you are doing a good job. For wife to blame you for her unhappiness and not giving her any choices thats just a bunch of bunk. If she really wanted to she could always just pack up and go. Just because she can't have it the way she wants it still doesn't mean that she doesn't have a choice. I have seen others go through a D and basically walk away with nothing just to get out of their sitch.

So, I believe you are doing a great job, and rightly so, by deflecting her attitude and opinions.

[MuddleThrough]

Thanks Stevie. I agree that she could walk away, but the consequences of this that she now recognizes are what keeps her from doing so. I did mention this to her in our conversation. Does anyone here know NY State divorce law? Does she have more of a leg to stand on then she thinks? What I'm really struggling against now is that if trying to make the M/family work is the ONLY real option, then I can almost certainly count on resistance/resentment no matter what. It has to be her choice. She even told me that she would be resenting us (me and S4) more now. I have to detach myself from her opinions and feelings. She's so angry at me that everytime we communicate now my stomach hurts. I know this is fear, and I know that she's trying to make things as unpleasant as possible in order to get me to walk away.

Maybe I should. Maybe that's the only way this will get resolved in the long run. I'll give myself a week or so to think about it, and monitor her in the mean time. I know she's still really fresh from her experience, so she needs time to rethink everything and understand where she is herself.