Quote: You all have no idea how hard it is to keep from skewering him with a hot poker while he sleeps.
Beautiful. Made me laugh You bet I do, honey. We all do. {{{PL}}}
Quote: he is still calling me "sweetheart" and "hon" and that sounds real every time, it is not fake.
I covet this, as I do not have it and my H is at home (for now). We are amiable, and beige. I call him 'honey' out of habit, even screwed up and said ILY on the phone at work one night and almost bit my own tongue off as those words have not been spoken in months. (I quickly said 'see you later' and hung up).
But I do not get 'honey' or 'sweetheart' in return. I am envious of this, and while I too am p*ssed at your H for being such a pr*ck, here is one positive thing you can cling to.
Look forward to hearing how your DB coaching goes! woo!
Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Is 43:18-19
If it seems slow in coming, wait. It's on its way. It will come right on time. Hab 2:3
Hi PL, I know this all sucks, we are all there or have been there. No it's not easy and the RCR is alot of ups and downs. And I agree with Isaiah, I slip some and call my H by a pet name from time to time but he has not returned the favor in over 10 months. I use to say ILY and he would say 'I know' until I just quit altogether, too much pressure on him.
Your H will cycle back and forth, that's part of the ride, and yes we hate the men they are right now. But remember, this is not really them, think of it as an imposter in your H's body. You are doing all the right stuff. Just keep it up. It's not over until you say it's over and I'm not getting the impression that it will be anytime soon. He will come thru this, it will just take time. For me, it's time well spent because I am growing as an independent person and I know that you are too. {{{hugs}}} Sooner
When we get tangled up in our problems, be still. God wants us to be still so He can untangle the knot.
I had a coaching call with Chuck yesterday morning. I took lots of notes to share with you all. This may be a long post - sorry! But I do want to "share the wealth" since I paid a pretty price for the coaching
First I caught Chuck up on my sitch since the time I spoke with him last (which was June) - the key events and what happened with H (my aunt dying, my trips, the citizenship and anniversary trip, the ups and downs with contact/no contact, warmth and coldness).
Chuck and I talked about the MLC stuff going on with H, and my sense that it's all about control and needing to be in control right now. My big looming question: What do I do???
Bottom lines, from Chuck:
What have I done that's gotten a positive response? Pay attention to that, do more of that [In my case, H responds favorably when I contact him, I call or invite him to things. This is the opposite of DBing anti-pursuing as I've read it. Chuck says even Michele says, do what works. In other words, checking in evey once in a while, reaching out, continues to be OK in my sitch].
Ok this next one seems counter-intuitive. Chuck says, if H is all about control right now, he has some fear that I will make my own decisions. So Chuck asked, "How often do I say 'no' to H?" Not often. H rarely asks me to do anything these days, but usually I am agreeable. So Chuck said, "When H invited you to Mexico, for example. Don't be so quick to agree. The part about you already being in the midst of making other plans is good. Follow it up with 'Thanks for the invite. I'll have to think about that and get back to you.' You don't want to give H the impression that he's calling all the shots." H needs to not be so sure that I'm always available.
About MLC, it is a rollercoaster. Hang on for the ride. I need to focus on my GAL activities, and I need to challenge my own internal fears.
H needs to hear me say "no" or "I'll have to think about that". It's healthy to throw that into the mix, that I've got options, that I've got a life. I have things I have to decide about. In a healthy R, H needs to see me as a more dynamic person. To the extent that H doesn't see that, there's not much motivation. I need to be wise, I don't have to roll over for H. So GAL is essential. [Now many of you know that I feel like I have a really rich life, and GAL is no big deal. Well I understand this differently now. For me, I have put H first in the past even with all of my other life stuff going on. I GAL, but will drop things for H, cater to H, make a date with H a top priority. No more. "No", more! ]
I need to give H motivation to find me fascinating and interesting again. The fear is, that as I detach, the R will fizzle and end. Well I can't control him. But I can do things to pique his interest. The thing here is, that you need them to begin pursuing you.
I told Chuck I was getting tired, exhausted. I told him that I wished there was something that would happen to startle H, wake him up, turn up the heat. Chuck said the question is, am I willing to accept the consequences?
The key thing he heard is that I was getting tired. Chuck said I need to do things I can do, to change my pace, to take my pace to a level that is sustainable, even energizing for me. Things that affirm who I am, in spite of what H is doing. Chuck said, what's different when I'm getting good results? What's been effective when I GAL and do things I enjoy? That's what will sustain me during H's MLC. He says my H has classic MLC indicators going on. The best thing is for me to ride out the waves. It could be one year, it could be three or more [GULP!]
Chuck said if I do want to give an ultimatum at some point, that he could coach me on giving ultimatums w/ some possibility of getting a good result.
But the bottom line for now is focus on what I can control, and keep mixing things up.
Interesting 180 we discussed. Since $$ is a hot button for H and me, we talked about letting H choose what needs to be done. My fear about this is that H will leave me high and dry. Chuck reminded me that H is a good guy at his core (even though he is confused with MLC). So if I say, "look here's the sitch w/ the $$, the bills and the cash flow, and I can now release control in determining how to solve this and you can decide because you are trustworthy and honorable" that usually people will step up to the plate, and be trustworthy. [I am pondering this heavily, this is a big one]
I had questions about whether it is OK now for me to share more of my true feelings with H (such as that I am sad, upset, etc.) as I have mostly kept this to myself and been cheery around H. Chuck said, don't worry about it. It's Ok for H to see me sad sometimes. But it's important that I'm not condemning, not angry. Just occasional, this is how I feel.
For DB to be effective, you start out to lay a good foundation. It's more than just having H come home at some point. It feels freeing to H that I am living a purposeful and joyous life. Sometimes he needs to feel the freedom to walk away. That's essential. He needs to know that he can walk away so he can choose to come back.
It is still essential not to bring up or talk about the OW. I am not to ask about his plans or future, etc. Convo about the OW causes H to feel guilt and embarrasment. I don't want him to tie that to me. Later in reconciliation, talk about OW is OK. Not now.
Regarding addressing important issues, confrontation, etc. (such as why did H ignore D's birthday, for example), here's the scoop: If I can forgive H for whatever it is, it is OK to address these issues as long as they are addressed without resentment, and without judgement. Keep resentments out. Don't treat him like he's wrong. I am free to address these things, in saying he was missed, or I was sorry you weren't there as I was counting on you for..."
Important: I need to talk to H as a husband. Be present to how it is different from talking to a son. H will hear that as respect.
I have been in a very interesting space these past few days. I have been praying too. I believe I am detaching, and getting fiesty too. Getting my sense of myself and my personal power back. I have been integrating some of this coaching, and processing. I have been all over the map, so I'm not taking any steps right now. More of that in a later post.
Hope you're all having a great Saturday. I am heading off for lunch with a dear dear friend at the beach.
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
Well today, I am preparing for the worst. The last two phone calls with H have left me with a sinking feeling that things may get much worse before they have any chance of getting better. Although I wish I could say my coaching call with Chuck improved my PMA, this time it did not. The idea that H could be meaner and more irresponsible than he is being and that it could last quite a while (read maybe 3 years more with this MLC) well, I am not feeling like I want any of my financial affairs hung up with H for much longer. It appears the truck payment was not made on time. Since it is in both of our names, that would be bad if it continues. I think it is just a slight slip up (which I have often enough with the household bills) but H is meticulous in ways that I am not so this is not "usual" for him. I also discovered that while H was here at our home office "printing an invoice" this week, that he was searching for airfares and car rentals on the computer and it looks as if he will be going back to Germany to visit OW in September. No surprise here really, it has been his pattern every 2 months or so. However, I felt my stomach jump. I actually get ill so I ran to the bathroom. He also was looking at a consecutive trip to Cancun for 2. And how long could I be dealing with this? If I can't change how I feel about it I'm gonna have to do something else or I'm going to make myself truly ill. Not good.
I did contact a lawyer on Friday, and set an appointment in a little over a week. It is just a consult (and expensive! $250) but this is a pro-marriage lawyer (apparently that is not an oxymoron) who mediates first, and he apparently has a 50% success rate with couples reconciling which is pretty good in my book. I had a realization that H could keep balking at the household expenses while he continues to spend on his fantasy life, and since the business is half mine technically and he's bleeding the $$ out of that account for these adventures, I thought I'd better find out what my rights are. I am thinking that if I got a separation agreement that I explained to H was truly just documentation of what we have agreed to and is already "so" that I could live with our sitch more easily and each of us would have a written agreement of what we have agreed to do and that we are officially separated (no more pretending).
Obviously my trust with H is waning at this point, and I feel I need some protection and support beyond what I have with my own voice and R with him. I will not say anything to H until I know more though. Perhaps I will not want to go ahead. But I think I will, as I am seeing no steps from H in my direction. I think I was particularly insulted by H's controlling comment on our last phone call, "don't call before Tuesday" and I think I just feel like he needs to get that I have some boundaries and limits also and I am not a happy camper with the sitch as it is currently. I try not to take these things personally but sometimes it is the flavor or H's tone that leads me down a certain line of thinking. So, I made copies of checks and bank statements and the business license etc. today. Just in case H gets really mad at some point and takes his stuff away. I hope someday I can say I never needed these things and I will be able to burn them on the happy day H is returning to our home and we are reconciling.
I am refraining from jumping too far into this line of thinking though, but I am now considering what next steps would look like if I had to go further, which might include having the access codes to our house/garage changed, getting a separate bank account, etc. I do not want to make my sitch worse, but I must admit H does not seem like H to me these days and that has got me concerned about how far into that dark alien tunnel he will go. I am going to do my very best not to spook him. But I do not know what will happen but something is up, I can feel it. Maybe he is just pulling away and being cold due to the trip he is planning with OW. Or because he has not seen me in 2 weeks and talks to her every day. H is clearly not capable of managing both R's simultaneously, this I know.
In my prayers, my answers the last few days have been that I must completely detach now. That I am being divinely led, that I must trust and let go of H completely. That the next part of H's journey is up to him. That human beings have the right to choose their own destiny and that H is at a crossroads and I must let go. I have cried and protested and still gotten the same answer. I have been resisting this one forever.
I have decided that next time I see H I will give him my heart once more, remind him that I have offered/tried many things to remain connected and supportive (counseling, coaching, financial coaching, seminars have all been suggested, as well as 2 heartfelt letters that have been written to him by me) and that he has not been interested in pursuing those activities or conversations with me. I will offer one other idea (a course through the transformation programs we have participated in in the past, which I think would be AWESOME and helpful) and if he declines or says "I need to think about that" I will let him know that now I am letting go. I am interested in having people with integrity in my life. H knows what this needs to look like, and I will invite him once again to step back into it - let him know the conversation is open for that if/when he ever becomes willing. Otherwise, I am left with cleaning up the messes, sorting out the financials, cleaning up the hurts with my D's, and moving on without a plan for H in my future. If he ever did decide to reenter the scene, I can decide then if it still fits for me and if I am willing to do the work to make it work then. I love H with all my heart, and I am sad to be at this place. I do not know if he can make it back to me. I will stand as long as I can in that possibility, but I also need to get back in action with moving my life forward. Having the financials clear (whatever that looks like) and moving it out of the ambiguity and whimsicalness of H's moods and affair addiction will help me cope, even if I am worse off than I am now (which may not be the case, actually - my fears about that may not be real). It may also be a reality check for H - what his situation REALLY is, what he stands to lose if he proceeds. I guess it would be good for him to know that, as right now I think he believes he can just walk out and take what ever he thinks he deserves with him. I can't make H be a trustworthy person, and I can't prevent the hurt that has happened to my heart, but I can take responsibility for protecting the future I had planned and the financial well being of myself and my children.
If anyone has insights on this, I am open. I feel like I have read so much, and every place on the continuum has valid points. Wait and be patient, don't do anything to alienate him further or to close him out.... to the other side, close the door tight until they are willing to work on the M. I am not sure that there is a "right" answer as a general rule. As my friend at lunch said today, worry is only about trying to figure out what will happen in the future, and we can never know that. Our work is to be in the present, one foot in front of the other, step by step. If we listen to our own heart, and determine that we are not trying to be vindictive or revengeful, that we are operating from love and compassion (for ourselves and others) then every choice we make, focusing on the present, step by step, will be the right one. I am going to focus on that as much as possible.
So, step by step, dealing with what is there to do: yesterday I met with the exterminator (to handle my major rat problem which H used to handle), I met with the gardener about our sprinkler problem (also a formerly H thing) and I had lunch with a friend who told me she has a guy who can install my windows on a cash basis and he's really good (works for her husband, a contractor, just did hers in her own house). So 3 things H was responsible for that I can handle if I can figure out the money part. I need the house exterior finished before winter rains come, and H has been promising since March without any action.
So I am in action and that feels good. I hope H's head doesn't start reeling when he realizes I am not just waiting around any more.
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
PL, I really think your head is in the right place. I'm all for the separation agreement. I think you really need to back way off for your sitch to have a chance.
Quote: I have decided that next time I see H I will give him my heart once more, remind him that I have offered/tried many things to remain connected and supportive (counseling, coaching, financial coaching, seminars have all been suggested, as well as 2 heartfelt letters that have been written to him by me) and that he has not been interested in pursuing those activities or conversations with me. I will offer one other idea (a course through the transformation programs we have participated in in the past, which I think would be AWESOME and helpful) and if he declines or says "I need to think about that" I will let him know that now I am letting go. I am interested in having people with integrity in my life. H knows what this needs to look like, and I will invite him once again to step back into it - let him know the conversation is open for that if/when he ever becomes willing
Great! Except that I'd skip the "sharing your heart" part ... he knows how much you love him.
The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth." (Psalm 145:18)
I think I have had some epiphanies after all. I got it today that all I really need to do is get this sitch to work for me. I need the integrity back in, I need to be committed to it and to insert it wherever it is missing for me. I need the truth 100% present, I need to speak it when I see it. Say what I see, what I need to do, one foot in front of the other. I think H being "weird" these past two weeks (cool, unavailable, cocky) has made it easier for me to see this and detach. I am not wanting to placate or "act as if" any more. I am at a new place where my authenticity matters most.
Regarding "sharing my heart" I don't mean telling H how much I love him. I mean being present to everything I say, coming from a loving place. Just compassion, love, listening and understanding present. Love (which includes loving and taking care of myself, and telling the truth and not settling for less than what I am committed to - integrity, love, joy). Being rigorous about that in how I speak, how much I say and what I say. I know I can speak in a way that H can hear it, without expectations or attachments.
I am experiencing detachment big time these past few days. I can tell in the books I am drawn to now. I have stopped reading books on saving my marriage, and am now drawn to reading books for my own healing and well-being and spiritual growth, books on the understanding of the R dynamic that got us here, and books on understanding H's childhood issues and R patterns that may have played into what happened to him. I have compassion for H. He is a good man underneath his present MLC behaviors. He may or may not make his way back to a loving connection with me. He will have to re-connect with himself first. All of his other relationships right now are non-existent (friends, the D's etc.) or are living in artifice/based upon lies (his parents, his B and SIL, his customers and business acquaintances and yes OW too). I can not help him, and was arrogant to think that I could. That must have really pissed him off. He always felt I was "better" at relationships than he is. Here he is now, living out that pain of total disconnect when he is such a sensitive loving soul wanting to be loved and gotten. He will have to figure this out, or not. God bless him, I wish him well. I love him with all my heart.
I am now really looking forward to getting to the lawyer and getting a separation agreement in place. It will free ME up from worry about what will happen, and put the R back in integrity for me. I will know what I am dealing with. In addition to the financial and property issues, I have been thinking I even want the sep agreement to include the stated agreement to date others. Since H has no intention to step back into integrity by ending his R with OW, I want to acknowledge that is where we are, and from the sep agreement forward, have a new commitment that sets us both free to take whatever next steps seem appropriate to our R needs.
I have no intention to D or to end the M. But I want H to know he is free to go now, set the agreements we will live by, make them official and tie it all up. Let the birdie out of his imaginary cage. No more ambiguity and confusion. We will see if H can make a new agreement that he will keep, starting from a new place. If H ever decided to come back to work on our M, it would be a choice, no further obligations beyond what we agree to in a separation agreement, or with a new M agreement. He'll either see how great I am before it's too late, or he won't. Maybe we'll still "date" occasionally. I will keep the door open for conversations and healthy communication. If he ends up taking it to a D later instead of reconciliation, so be it. He will know a D is not what I want. I can continue to be patient and observe and listen and be open and loving, but I want to release him from all expectations of the old M. My only concern is that H may have difficulty accepting the terms of separation, so we may have some negotiating to do. He is in a different place now, more cocky, not so contrite and concerned about the steps he has taken. MLC is heavily in action. I am hoping the lawyer can assist me with leverage, frankly. I am hoping what is "fair" will make H take pause about exiting - I hope he has something he sees that he will lose. So far he does not see anything I don't think, except getting away from me which he says he wants. So it may be a little tricky working out some of the details with him now. We shall see. I will be loving and kind, but I will not be a push-over. I hope the lawyer can manage this well, I do not want to be adversarial. Nonetheless, I am excited that I now have a new plan of action.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I will need your prayers and positive thoughts. I am going to meet with my minister in two weeks also (she is away on vacation right now). I think she will help me to continue to hold H in the light of love while being true to myself.
BTW, her talk at church today was on hearing "the voice" when you pray. I am not alone! And it is not as weird as I thought! I guess people just don't talk about it much. I think I had not listened as hard in the past as I am listening now But it was very comforting to realize I had so much company in this experience of being divinely led.
Always open to thoughts from any of you. Until next time...
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
My dear friends and acquaintances on the infidelity board:
I have decided to move to the Mid Life Crisis board as I am clear that on top of the OW and A issues, the MLC reigns supreme. I hope more than anything that the friends I have made here (who have helped me so much) will visit me there. Here is my new thread, for your posting pleasure:
Please please come see me there and book mark me as a favorite too I love you all.
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
Hi PL, Well, it seems that you have made a huge turn around for yourself! This is good. I think by truly detaching and letting go, will be a step in the right direction for you.
I'm not sure if our H's will ever 'get it' but I still have hopes. This was the hardest part for me in letting go. To quit thinking up ways that I could 'help' H or ways to talk to him or drive by his work to see if he was there just in the hopes of catching a 'glimpse' of him. You and I are in a much better place right now and will give us time to work on ourselves.
My divine voice came to me about a month ago and since then, I have truly been at such peace with myself that I'm now able to wait patiently. I still don't like the situation but am okay with it, if that makes any sense.
Thanks for sharing some of your notes from your phone consult w/Chuck. I too have wondered about whether or not to occassionally contact H to invite to family functions or out to dinner. I've been told not to, that it is time for him to pursue me. But I have noticed recently on the times that I have had to contact him, he is always quick to respond and even prolongs the talk time. This plus your observation leads me to believe that I may need to change my tactics a bit.
I think you are doing great and I like new assertive you! {{{hugs}}} Sooner
When we get tangled up in our problems, be still. God wants us to be still so He can untangle the knot.
But it was very comforting to realize I had so much company in this experience of being divinely led.