Hey PL, Sorry it's been a few days since I last visited, the weekends are hard for me to stay at home so I'm out more than in.
Quote: Your thoughts on this, the delicate balance between self-care and spending/squandering $$ would be appreciated.
You are doing all the stuff I did early in my sitch. All I can say is it will get better. And by better, I don't mean a break up, I mean you will find your peace within yourself and with your sitch where you can continue your stand AND have a life w/o H (for the time being). You will discover that you will make it, either w/H or w/o H.
We too have spent a ton of money: H on ow and me on my PMA activities. Just recently H has asked me to help him take care of 'our' money, to watch what we spend and to help reduce some of our spending. I don't see that as controling, I see that as concern for our future. (yes, I hope it is together). All I'm saying is to be wise in what you do. He can't justify what he is doing right now anymore than you can. In the end, what does it matter? The past is the past, let it go and work on your long term goal, saving your M.
As to you moving out because of memories. IMO, I wouldn't do it. Your home is a safe, comfortable place that your H will see as a haven, one where he had happy memories too. Yes, it may be hard for you to be there w/o him but that too will get easier in time.
As far as seeing a L, I have mixed emotions about that. I have not, cos I feel that it would be a death knoll on my M. You can get legal advice w/o hiring a L.
All I'm saying is give it some time and give H his space. Mine has asked for this and other things in a round about way and it has taken me a bit of time to finally 'hear' him. I hope you have a great day today! {{{hugs}}} Sooner
When we get tangled up in our problems, be still. God wants us to be still so He can untangle the knot.
Today is Sunday and I went to church. Today's message was made for me once again. In the face of adversity it is our ability to see a possibility and stand in it, in the face of threats, destruction or no agreement, that creates a miraculous future where dreams come true and builds our character in the interim. It is our visioning, our standing for this possibility, that has it manifest, because the universe listens to us, and wants to provide for us. And it is this struggle, facing the pain and confusion and difficulties, that creates our greatness. That's what I am up to right now, character building
The book our minister was refering to today is called "the Hidden Parables" by Todd Michael, and it is about the lessons in the parables from the Bible creating the profound rewards in life. Her message and this book was a really powerful message, and the book is arranged to work in a sequence, so I bought the book and I am going to do that. I just wanted to share it with any who may be interested. I have not spent a lot of time studying the Bible in my life, I have a pretty eclectic spiritual base and am open to diverse traditions and many forms of healing. However I appear to be being led right now to a deeper self-understanding, on this path. Since I am inspired and moved, I know I am on to something. Just wanted to share that.
I had a beautiful lunch out in my garden, and am now off to studying. I have several big assignments which are slightly overdue. Today is the end of my extension, so must focus on my school work for the remainder of the day until it is done.
Meanwhile, I feel today that all is right and as it needs to be right now. There was an interesting discussion on Always_14 thread last evening and earlier this AM (on MLC board), related to love and compassion, and Baseball Annie's response to me over there, related to losing ourselves by abandoning self-care and shifting focus to fix the other person, that was really helpful food for thought about how I got here. I am now getting where I got off the healthy train and on the over-extended, caretaking, other-focused train. I will continue to focus on me, and be loving and compassionate towards H in my thoughts and whenever possible in our limited contact. That's all for now that I am up to.
Thanks all of you who continue to read along and stick with me. Every one of you (whether I hear from you in writing or not) provides support in your loving and caring thoughts to provide healing for me, for my H and for our M. For this collective consciousness, I am so grateful.
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
I had a dream about H this morning. I dreamed that I was sleeping in my bed, and when I got up in the morning it was raining and the roof was leaking everywhere, in the bedroom, in the living room, everywhere. There was flooding starting in places, big deep puddles behind the TV where all the wires are and in our bedroom too. I couldn't even begin to figure out where to start to contain the leaks, and I started running around, in a panic. I saw a big leak and put a little container under it and then realized that leak was outside the house (over the patio) and I needed to stop the leaks inside the house. And I felt like I had no idea what to do. I didn't want to disturb H, I felt like I shouldn't have to call him anymore now that he is gone, but I decided I had to call him because he would be able to manage it right away and he would know what to do, and I was at a complete loss. I couldn't remember his number, and I kept trying to dial and getting it wrong, and started dialing over again and again. While I trying to dial, H came in the door (behind me) and I spun around and I said (talking fast, still with panic), "I was trying to call you, I really need your help and I just didn't know what to do on my own, it was too overwhelming. It's leaking everywhere, and I think the roof in the kitchen is about to cave in - it is bowed with water." And he said, "I have been here, I was just waiting for a few minutes until you got your pants on." I looked down, and I had pants on, thick black leggings, but it also looked like I had a bulge in the crotch area (like I was a man). This surprised me when I looked down, but I didn't say anything about that to him. I thought to myself, I know I'm a woman under there, when the leggings come off it's obvious - it's the pants that create that illusion. But I said to him, "I have pants on, isn't this covered up enough for you?" and he didn't say anything, but he walked with me to the biggest leak in the kitchen where the whole roof was bowed like it was going to fall in, and he touched it with one index finger, and the roof stopped leaking and went back to it's normal position and all the leaks in the house stopped and it felt like I had witnessed God's finger reaching down from the heavens and a miracle healing had occured and I witnessed it. I threw my arms around his neck and gave him a big hug. He was just quietly standing. And then I woke up.
So I guess that about sums up the subconscious fears and vulnerabilites, the unconscious hopes and dreams and needs of PL. We'll see what the day reveals.
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
WOOOOW!!! What a DEEP dream. You being the "man" is also very intersting, since you're so taking charge of so much now, including your own self-growth, that H is unable to do now.
I want to also thank you for hopping on my thread with some wonderful advice. I thought so much about what you said, and I will make it a point to do. I really respect your advice and am eternally grateful for your thoughtful insight and advice. THANK YOU.
I agree with where you are now, and where many of us MLC LBS's are now....focus on ourselves and being compassionate and loving toward ourselves. It's no use to overextend ourselves now, b/c when MLCers come back, it's still a lot of work to do, and I suspect that most will lie in us.
PL, Dreams are another way that God talks to us, I truly believe that. Yours was a healing dream in that Gods peace came over you and HE is saying to you that HE is there holding you up. I imagine that you saw H in this role perhaps cos he was the 'healer' in your M before and now you have to be 'the man' of the family for the time being.
I too have had a many dreams about my H since he has been gone. Most of them has been about us at friends, or at a family function, plus a couple of weird ones early on that I think may have reflected ow some. But the one that has made the most impact on me was the one I had just last Friday where H told me 'I love you', and I said it back.
Then on Sunday, the message at church was so profound and seemingly aimed directly at me (this was the Holy Spirit talking to me) that I told the paster after services how much I appreciated his sermon.
Don't discount your dreams. They are a confirmation that God is listening to us and is healing our M's. {{{hugs}}} Sooner
When we get tangled up in our problems, be still. God wants us to be still so He can untangle the knot.
I went to my relationships seminar tonight, and it was powerful. Tonight was about "being a clearing for love." In other words, it is who I am in the world that has love show up the way it shows up, and also within my ability, because of who I am, to have it show up how I am committed to having it show up. I am responsible - I get it .
So in our seminar, there are opportunities for paired sharing. The woman I sat next to (my partner for the evening, as it turned out) was a visitor from another town, a friend of the seminar leader, someone 100% new to me. It turned out she had "stepped out" as she put it, during her marriages. She is single now, readjusting after her most recent 7 year R just ended. I also want to tell you that she was a very beautiful woman physically, the kind of woman I have always felt was more perfectly beautiful than most of us including me (gym perfect, flawless features, money spent on upkeep, but not overdone - you know - like a well kept celebrity). She shared with me that she had cheated in her relationships because she did not love herself enough, that it was issues out of her past. I had not told her anything about me yet. When I shared and she found out that H and I are separated, and my H is in an A with an OW, she stopped me and said "You need to understand that he doesn't know what he is doing right now. It's not about you, and it's definitely not about her. He just doesn't believe he deserves your love, he doesn't love himself enough right now. You must not give up on him!" I thanked her, and I told her I would not give up, that I loved my husband with all my heart, and that I am a stand for his greatness and for the greatness of our marriage. She paused, and then squeezed my hand and she started to cry, and she said, "oh my God, I am so sorry. I am so sorry. You are a woman like the ones that I have hurt". Wow. I squeezed her hand back and started to cry myself, and told her, "no need to apologize now, you are a part of my healing."
Now, who here can tell me that my life is not absolutely miraculous? I am getting it from strangers. I feel like all the universe is conspiring on my behalf to assure me that I understand the meaning of unconditional love and forgiveness, and that everything that is happening is for good. I am on to something here, you know? And if this is the life journey, my Lord yes yes, I'm in. It was quite an evening.
The other things that has been going on, is I have been praying a lot. I know I have mentioned this before, but I just keep talking about it because I have never had experiences like this before in my life. I pray at night in my bed, and the tears start to flow. Last night, I prayed for my H, and myself and for our M to be healed, and I prayed for protection for my H from all harm, then I prayed for OW that she would be healed and no longer be lonely and afraid, and find her way back to love her H and her family, then I prayed for H's dad, who caused a lot of damage in H's life even though all is forgiven now and I prayed for his healing, and his mom, and all of them, and my D's, and then I went on and on to everyone I could think of, everyone I know. And I cried, the tears poured out in the darkness. And when it was all over, I got quieter, and then I asked if there was anything I needed to know, and I put my hand over my heart and I got the message, "You must trust and be patient. Everything is unfolding as it should. You must trust. I will not lead you astray. Continue to be patient. It won't be much longer now." Like that, speaking out of my mouth, but not in my own words, until I got so calm that the mattress and me and what was above and below were all one entity and I was light. I went into some other world for a while and then awoke from it feeling completely calm.
One of the things I thought about last night too, afterwards, is when H comes back, I don't want to stop praying. So where will I go to have these experiences? And I started beginning to figure that out in my head, so I would always remember never to go backto the way it was before. It's funny that I actually realized how I stopped many healthy things due to H's presence in my life when I got M. I will need to figure out how to keep the things that work for me after he comes back. I am going forward now, on to something new and powerful and amazing. No allowing lost and tired and afraid to take over. I must plan for having a great life, and keep my priorities in order. That is another gift of all this.
I am writing these things here because this is my place now to chronicle what is happening to me. I realize that the departure of my H and this crisis has been the catalyst for a deep and powerful journey for me. It is true that I will not be, and no longer am, the same person I was before. It is nice to have an anonymous place to write these things down and share them. I think there may be other people out there who have spiritual awakenings as part of this process, so I guess I want you to know that I'm a regular person in many ways but some extraordinary things are happening anyway
I have decided that I will find the opportunity at some point this week to connect with H. I suspect H will call me soon, however if he does not, I will be bold and share myself with him somehow this week. It is in the context of these types of conversations and transformational work that H and I fell in love. Last time I shared myself with him there was an opening for intimacy and relatedness and a connection between us. I need to remember that I must periodcally reach out to H with love. No expectations, just being myself. But it is powerful for him, and I want H to have those little periodic reminders every once in a while, of what has genuinely and repeatedly inspired him. I'm not sure when I will make contact - probably by the weekend if I haven't heard from him by then.
Meanwhile I also have a coaching call scheduled with DB coach Chuck on Friday, so I will be preparing for that, and take in his good coaching. I will share with all of you any useful tidbits I receive.
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
PL, Wow, what a powerful post. Your experience with the woman at the seminar had me crying too. We are told the same words on these boards but to be able to experience it in person makes it all the more believeable.
I too am not overly religious but believe in God. I too have started going back to church and praying, sometimes 2-3 times a day. I too have had a 'spiritual' experience (my 1st ever) just recently that gave me such calm and insight into why I'm doing what I am doing. I shared this with a close friend and he was happy that I did. He said that he has had only 2 'like' experiences in his lifetime and never talks about it cos he doesn't want people to think he is a church fanatic.
I think when we get to the point in our sitches like you and I are, alot of LBS's get impatient and start saying 'what about me and my needs?' And they push the MLCer for a decision and the MLCer can not make a decision right now so the LBS moves on. Most of our friends who have been so supportive this past year are now starting to question my stand but they know it's what I want so they wisely say nothing.
You are doing the right thing by journaling here and staying strong! {{{hugs}}} Sooner
When we get tangled up in our problems, be still. God wants us to be still so He can untangle the knot.
PL, I'm still here although I don't post much. I believe in you. You are finding your inner strength, in your case, thru God. That is great.
"Someone", God or otherwise has put us in this situation. It is sink or swim time folks. Only "we" have the power to control our destiny and our future. If our spouse's did not have this "crisis" we would have just continued along our merry way. This has forced us to look deep within ourselves and to grow and improve. We needed this to wake up and smell the coffee. We (at least I was) were selfish in thinking that everything revolved around me and my feelings. We are now forced to consider the feelings of others; even though they may not coincide with ours. We now need to be compasionate and show empathy to our S's and say Hey, that's how you feel huh?, I can totally understand that.
Hi PL i've been impressed with your posts to other threads and have finally found your story...i'm halfway thru the second thread but wanted to post to you so i could bookmark you.
You and i are in such similar conditions that i'm learning a lot from your posts. You seem to have such a good grasp on things, and i completely get where you're coming from. will post again once i finish reading your threads jacqm
Well, today and tonight have been a bit rough. I admit I am afraid I am losing here in my efforts to save my marriage. It is so hard to stay hopeful, every time I have contact with H I get so discouraged. It almost seems like I can live in my own fantasy having no contact, but once I have contact with who H is, he is not OK, not what I want, it's so discouraging. Where did my H go? Who is this man who looks and sounds like H, but is so cock-sure of himself, so self-centered, so uninterested in me, our home, our M? Oh, yuck yuck yuck. I do not like my H right now.
My mom used to say that I shouldn't make an ugly face, because "what if it got stuck like that?". I feel like H got stuck. It's like the twilight zone.
OK. Here's what happened. Probably no big deal you will all think, so why does it feel like this to me? H called today. This is the first call in a week, two weeks since I've seen him. Same call as last week, letting me know he is coming by to use the office to print an invoice. We chat briefly, H seems overly distracted (driving). I say, perhaps we should chat sometime - would he like to drop by on Sunday? Not sure, busy this weekend, can't check calendar now, working alot, will I call him about that later? I say, "So you want me to call you?" He says, "Yes, call me." OK
I spent 1 hour clearing with my good friend on the phone. H's cold demeanor and dismissive nature is tough. I keep wondering how to manage myself around it. I am shocked every time. It feels like I never win with H. Friend gets me clear, we strategize. I decide to call H back tonight. I get clear before the phone call, have 3 items to discuss, all of which I will invite him to engage in. H is in a better place when I call, more available to talk.
I wrote a letter to H's son (H had asked me to do this two months ago, since they are not speaking), I also had some photos made up. I want to send it off tomorrow. Does H have anything he wants me to include from him? UCK, darn, I was derailed. H says yes, give it to me, I will send it with some things I have to send him also. But not til next week sometime, I'll let you know when I can come by. [I do not feel good about this. It feels like one more thing H will not keep his word about. But it is his son. I say OK]
I ask him for advice, about rat problem and sprinkler problem. Compliment H about how much more he knows about these things than me. H likes that. Gets puffed up and directive. But then uses conversation to bring up that he doesn't want to provide $$ to the house anymore, now that he's not living here. Can I understand why he would feel that way?, he asks me. I say yes. Can you also understand how I might feel about it? H says yes, he can imagine that. H says, I am working all the time and I have no $$ over here. I say yes, and I am holding the space of our home in the context of our M. Silence. [I believe H thinks this is about me vs him, H no longer has any context of "us" or our M is how it occurs to me. It feels like he thinks he is doing it "for me" and he doesn't want to any more, resents me.]
End of convo, told me we should get together, talk about the $$. But no conversations, no calls before Tuesday. OK.
All of this, in very cheery, upbeat and "I'm in charge" tones. He is so puffy, so "right" about everything right now. You all have no idea how hard it is to keep from skewering him with a hot poker while he sleeps. Of course, I don't even know where he lives, so don't worry. Now I, on the other hand, have no locks on the door, H comes and goes. H treats me as if he has no respect for me and is just outta here - take, take, take and run. WTF, he is such a jerk right now. Where did this man come from? And where is the man I married? Actually, I'd settle for the one I saw 2 weeks ago at lunch, the one who invited me to Mexico with his family and kissed me 2 x on the lips. I'd take him in a flash over this alien impersonator I talked to today.
So, why would I want to call him? So he can tell me once again that he's happy, wants out, doesn't want to pay, whatever? H married me, and he acts like he can just erase it. Oh, I'm mad. First time in a while. It's really a bummer too, because if I stay mad H will really suffer because staying mad for too long makes me mean. All I get is rejection and H's control issues. He is a test, to be sure. AAACK.
I called good friend back. 2 more hours on the phone. Lucky she loves me. Lucky I have a discount for long distance phone service. I cried and ranted, and wanted to quit. Even she wishes it would end, that some decision would emerge. But she was supportive, said she wasn't sure if she helped me this time though, I assured her she definitely did. BUT, Limbo sucks. H's A sucks. MLC sucks. This whole thing SUCKS.
OK, here are some positives I have to put in. H says he wants to talk about the $$, and paying less. Has been saying that since March. I have left it to him to set a time for us to meet to talk about the finances. So far that hasn't happened. If actions speak louder than words, then H doesn't really want to stop being involved financially, he just wants to say he does. Also, H doesn't want a D "too permanent" he says. So far so good. And even in the midst of his cocky "right" conversations with me, he is still calling me "sweetheart" and "hon" and that sounds real every time, it is not fake. In fact, even though I hear all these things that seem like he is pushing me away, he also says things like he wants me to call, etc. Hard to think that that's not just H making sure he has me "in control" though. But then of course, there's Mexico... what a goof ball.
Well, good news is, tomorrow morning, I have a coaching call with Chuck. I hope he can give me something to do. I am frustrated because the less I see my H, the worse my sitch gets IMHO. When I see him more, it seems H is better, more connected, sweeter. This has been true from the beginning. So there's the part of me that wishes I had not encuoraged the separation. But seeing H is hard on me, takes a toll. There is no comfortable balance in this process for me yet. I have been unsuccessful in detaching. Only when I do not see H am I able to detach. The yo-yo thing, the rollercoaster, it is hard. But the less I see him, the worse H is the next time. That feels like a Catch-22, n'est-ce pas? My health is reacting. I have been having 15 day cycles and some pretty knarly headaches. I know this is hormonal, but no doubt my sitch is affecting it - I can tell. No one can cry and grieve this much for this long without some kind of effect. No matter how good my new figure looks and my exercise program is.
I feel like H needs a BIG blow up to wake up. A disintegration of the world as he currently knows it. OW needs to end, someone he loves needs to get sick or die, H needs to bottom out somehow. That's the only thing that will help our M IMHO. I don't feel like this can be at my hands either. If I caught a lucky break, and the OW messed up or left that would really help. But it doesn't look like that's what's happening. I have to figure out what to do with myself between now and when that blow up happens, or I won't make it. I know it will happen eventually. I know it. There is no way any R founded on so little integrity and so little reality can possibly work out. But when? Ah, the 1,000,000,000 question. And who will remain standing?
I want to confront H in a big way. I sure hope Chuck can help me with some new tools or new found patience.
Well tomorrow night is the 24 hour prayer vigil started on the Prayer Circle board. I'm gonna do that, I've never done that before in my life. Maybe I will have my own epiphany.
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
