Quote: you are correct. IN YOUR W's MIND is where this all lives. Not in the real world. IN her dream world.
Clearly that is our marital problem. I feel like I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. One way is to speak my truth and step on her toes in speaking my truth and possibly lose my W and M while gaining a real sense of self. The other way is to shut my mouth and go back to the marital dynamics that led me here in the first place. There must be a third way that I cannot get my arms or mind around right now. Will you help me envision what I cannot?
First off, the 'way' is a mixture of both. Speak the truth and always be respectful when you do. And remember there is a time and place for everything so you'll know when to stay quiet and when to speak it.
I am learning this now. Unfortunately, when I am feeling really hurt by her behavior I lose the ability to curtail the judgemental, condescending A-hole in me. Grrrr. One good thing is that I have unearthed my ability to detach lovingly more often. I need to do that ALL the time, NOT just more often! I am gettin' there though, tryin' to UN-ingrain my troublesome ingrained habits/behavior to the point where these new behavior are "normal" for me and what I resort to in a moment of crisis.
Quote: Second , regarding memories. This is something my coulselor told me way at the 'beginning' about how to deal with the old negative memories. She said that we really don't remember actions or events unless they were traumatic and something triggers it, or if the action or event is repeated. So, make NEW memories. Which of course is what you are doing. The NEW memories are what she is seeing.{/quote]Thank you Frank, for sharing valuable insights/perspectives from you counseling session. Where do I sent the check for your counselor helping me. You are absolutely right. I AM creating NEW memories. Good ones to replace the sh*tty ones. Nice.
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Quote: I think so much like you do, kind sir. My problem is that I often voice my views in ways that are received as judgemental and /or condescending which serves NO purpose. Again, I am working on figuring out how to deliver my views in a manner in which they will be better received. Ugh! So much about me is in dire need of change.
What? and you think you're special or something? LIke we ALL aren't in need of change here? Welcome to 'Club DB, a club for change'
LOL. Of course I thinK I am special "or something." Nah, I am just shocked at the amount of clay I have in me to work with to build the man that God always intended for me to be. A LOT!! Never realized how much "material" I had to work with to change until I started really doing an inventory of myself. Sheesh! Oh well, could be worse. I could be oblivious instead of just a newby in re-building me.
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Quote: I believe that she is running scared. She is afraid that her mask that she has been wearing to fool others and herself in to believing she is happy and "all together" and that facade will fade away if she takes a good, hard look at it and herself. Running is easier. Staying busy is easier. Stopping and taking a behavioral and moral inventory has to be a terrifying proposition for her...so she runs, pushing her H and M away.
And when it catches up with her, which it WILL, it will hit her like a freight train. You need to be consistent and that will speed up the process. You've REMOVED all of her 'justification' for her actions. That's gotta hurt. Can't run forever.
I believe you are correct. I am working on re-inforcing my spiritual foundation so that I will be able to remain standing for my and my M when her behavioral earthquakes again shake me badly. I am working diligently to be able to keep myself open to reconciliation.
A really good friend of mine, whom I respect greatly, told me a couple of days ago that I am incredibly strong because he would never have been able to stand for the mistreatment that has been heaped upon me without ANY slack being affored me. He used some choice words as to how he would have handled my situation. Fortunately, I have been able to err on the side of grace for the most part with my W.
Quote: That's why she brought up the Affair the other day. Needed to 're-charge' her 'justification battery'. What does that tell you about her current self image?
I do believe that she did need to 're-charge' her 'justification battery', but I did not provide the re-charging station she was looking for. I stated my truth calmly, made sure she knew that I love her, and listened when she told me that she understood why I stepped out on my M. I discussed a little of what I have learned about affairs in general and specifically how it applied to me. She listened and offered insight on what she feels she is still missing from me. THAT convo was FAR more information about her thoughts and feelings than I have ever received to date in my sitch. Her self image is sh*t. Hence, she's still trying to pump it up by flaunting her a$$ to men so they will tell her how pretty she is and all that they would do for her. THIS behavior IS teenage behavior, she behaved similarly when she was a teenager, trying to gain a sense of self worth from men b/c her father was emotionally unavailable and her older brother is a jacka$$, and was when she was growing up, too.
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Quote: I will keep doing what I am doing, only I hope to do it better. I will work to eliminate negative impact and consequences from me stating my views, giving my opinion, protecting our children and/or standing up for myself. I want to talk to others, especially my W and family, in a way that I will not look back and believe that I didn't speak in a very proper, clear, adequate and respectful manner. As long as I won't look back and say, you know, there was at least one other way I could have communicated my message better.
Amen.
Thank you.
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Quote: I've decided that I'd rather deliver my message properly 5 seconds/minutes/hours/days/weeks/months late than to communicate my message realtime in the wrong way. As Amy says, I talk too much. I sometimes think that I get mesmerized with my own ideas and the sound of my own voice and my mough goes on autopilot to the detriment of the recipient and myself.
Yep, I am learning this also and sometimes it is sooooo hard to shut up! Luckily my W is able to vocalize when I'm being that way and help me change it - without anger or judgement.
For me, my W sees me better than I see myself when she is in a calm and rational state of mind. Unfortunately, often she is not in that state of mind. However, even during our sitch, she does see that I am working to change and offers her perspective and encouragement. I just wish that would come without anger and/or judgement, especially since I AM working to change and encouragement works much better with me.
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Quote: In closing, Frank, I KNOW that my W is back on the internet dating services. She JUST broke up with OM and she's already back at it. Says she needs girl time. I guess girl time is chasing guys in bars with girlfriends. I am not sitting in judgement of her for this. Obviously, this is what she feels she needs to do. She did the same thing when she found out about my A.
Remember, she is acting like a teenager. Think of her in those terms. Acting out, getting her oen way. Don't tolerate it when it interferes with your life. Other than that you can't do much except stay away from her.
THAT is the key; to NOT tolerate her behavior when it interferes with my life. Again, I am working to lovingly detach and to stay away from her b/c the shapnel from her unseemly behavior hurts too much to witness and have rubbed in my face. Each day I get stronger. I just hope she is able to get ahold of her emotions and claim her H and her M before it's too late.
Quote: IN spite of the 'dating site' crap, I think she is starting to worry.
I thinks she is too.
Story: Last night when she told me she wanted to go out and she wanted me to be with our children, she said that I would probable take them to church with me. She knows I ALWAYS do, even when she has them on Sunday I pick them up and take them with me and drop them off back with her. But I digress.... We were shopping today for D5's Bday and my W asked me to play some Christian music that is often on my car and that my D sings all the time. I put it on for her and she listened and seemed pleased, telling me she liked the songs that I pointed out the really touched me in church. My D was singing one day in my bathroom the song by Chris Tomlin, Holy is the Lord, and it really caught my attention b/c I didn't realize that she had memorized the song from listening to it when she rides with me. My favorite experience is when I look in my rearview mirror and she is singing the verse Holy is the Lord, God almighty. The earth is filled with His glory. When D sings this verse she has the biggest smile on her face while she is belting it out at the top of her lungs. Absolutely adorable. Obviously my W was similarly impacted. I love our children. The Lord works on the Lord's time, not mine. It is helpful to keep my eyes open to take notice of the smallest bit of movement in our sitch by my W rather than being a whiny, poor is me a$$wipe! I've got my eyes open to validate and encourage change.
Nah, I am just shocked at the amount of clay I have in me to work with to build the man that God always intended for me to be. A LOT!! Never realized how much "material" I had to work with to change until I started really doing an inventory of myself. Sheesh! Oh well, could be worse. I could be oblivious instead of just a newby in re-building me. 
I love our children. The Lord works on the Lord's time, not mine. It is helpful to keep my eyes open to take notice of the smallest bit of movement in our sitch by my W rather than being a whiny, poor is me a$$wipe! I've got my eyes open to validate and encourage change. 
