Quote: Nobody is making her do it. IF, as your MIL says, you have 'atoned' enough then I say your W is a total jerk who is selfish and immature.
Um, Frank, I THINK this is kinda what I was getting at in my post to Amy/you/HH/others reminding all of us where this thing started, with his W basically being an a-hole for the entire marriage, constantly threatening divorce, walking all over HH, etc. My point was that IF she continues this behavior then, well, then there will be some tough decisions for HH because while many of us have a usually "ok" WAS that is an a-hole because of an affair/MLC/whatever, HH's wife was (and of course we only have HIS side of the story) the a-hole in the R all along. I think HH is starting to realize that putting up with a-hole behavior should be the exception NOT the rule in his marriage. I, like him, fear she may not change.
He claims she's been looking for a "get out of marriage card" from day... well... at least day 2 and now is acting like she's gotten it via his affair.
This has always been a tough sitch because of those things, and unfortunately for HH, I think it may continue to be such for awhile.
Sorry HH, I think you are doing GREAT. I just wish your W would follow suit.
Quote: Nobody is making her do it. IF, as your MIL says, you have 'atoned' enough then I say your W is a total jerk who is selfish and immature.
Um, Frank, I THINK this is kinda what I was getting at in my post to Amy/you/HH/others reminding all of us where this thing started, with his W basically being an a-hole for the entire marriage, constantly threatening divorce, walking all over HH, etc.
I'm not sure if somehow you thought I was coming across as contridicting you in some way? Must be mis-communication on my part.
Anyway, I 100% agree with what you've said. I think HH is in a place where he MAY be making tough decisions. I'm having a hard time believing that she is going to change after HH changes HIS life to be better. I don't think she respects ANYBODY.
I've seen people like that. Usually on Jerry Springer.
I will respond to Jack's thread. I only got through about 1/2 of his thead last night and I hope to finish it tonight. I may not be able to respond until this weekend. Sorry. My own sitch is still working me over.
Quote: I will respond to Jack's thread. I only got through about 1/2 of his thead last night and I hope to finish it tonight. I may not be able to respond until this weekend. Sorry. My own sitch is still working me over.
Yeah, I understand. Jack has some similarites and sometimes you can see the solution for someone else and apply it to yourself.
Quote: I understand where this is coming from though. She is hurt, angry, feels embarassed and betrayed and is also feeling the need to "save face" because all of the "stuff" she has heaped upon me to friends and acquaintances in the wake of my mistake. I am sure she does not want to look weak or bad after all of that. But, as my MIL has told me, I made a mistake and have worked very hard to atone for my A and to make amends to my W. My MIL says I have paid enough and I need to stand up for myself and stop being my W's doormat and/or whipping post.
None of these reasons are permission for her to be an A-HOLE. She's doing it because she CAN. Sounds to me like she has a BIG EGO and your MIL is right - Stop putting up with it. Look HH, she's doing what she's doing because she WANTS to. Nobody is making her do it. IF, as your MIL says, you have 'atoned' enough then I say your W is a total jerk who is selfish and immature.
I hate to agree with my MIL (SERIOUS issue with her), but MIL is correct. I know my W is doing what she is doing because she wants to and can.
I have atoned for my F-up. I have made it clear from the beginning that my A was NOT my wanting out of the M, despite what my W thinks/feels. I have apologized profusely, promised monogamy, told her I wanted to restore and reconcile our M, worked on me, assisted her in whatever way she allowed, taken her abuse and retaliated minimally towards her, endured her selfish behavior, etc.
I do agree, she has a big EGO and has NO right to be an A-hole. Unfortunately, the EGO is a mask that she wears to hide her huge insecurities that she has carried since childhood. Problem is, despite 12 years in A.A. and reading tons of self-help books, NONE of it seems to have penetrated her heart and soul. All of that knowledge is superficial, at best. She can quote what the books say, but she hasn't really applied the learnings in her life She has a narcissitic personality disorder. THAT makes it tough for me, because I fell under that spell and gave up my true self in trying to woo her and subsequently make our M work by subjegating my wants/needs to hers to my own detriment and unhappiness, hoping that she would change.
She hasn't. I am a textbook definition of a co-dependent (CD) with her and I am struggling to loosen the CD grip. I am making headway, but not as fast or as much as I would like. But then again, my own guage for me now is that, I strive to make ME better than I was yesterday, everday.
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Quote: I have not heard anything back, but since he is OUR mediator I am not sure if she has heard anything, and I am not in the mood to ask her. I believe since he is working for both of us, dealing with only one of us would be unethical.
And possibly illegal. Read your contract with him. Call him and ASK what the answers to her questions are.
I tried to find the docs at the house today, but couldn't find them. Looks like I am going to need to call the mediator's office and get a copy because I don't want to call my W and start that fight. I know it will all work itself as it should. My job is to keep on keepin' on striving to be a better me. It's the damn journey I am on that is so painful.
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Quote: BTW, I have never told W that I will not quitclaim the house to her. I also find it interesting/disturbing that she already wants her maiden name back. It has been my experience that most woment who have children are NOT in a huge hurry to change their last name and have a different last name from their children, unless they ARE getting re-M shortly. Who knows what's on her mind except anger for me? I suppose this can all be chalked up to her present state of mind.
I think you should tell her you aren't just going to quitclaim on the house. IN her present state she will be furious because she is not getting her way BUT she will also see that YOU are not a doormat and YOU are not rolling over for her. It may have an effect on her.
Working up the nerve to do that. Not that doing so will make the marital waters, in which I find myself, any more treacherous.
I generally give myself too much credit for having the ability to change the direction in which W's mind flies at warp speed. One thing I can say about her. She has been adamant about wanting out of the M, despite the few very encouraging R conversations she has allowed herslf to have. Too seriously distracted by OM to deal with anything other than the fantasy world she and OM occupy ATM.
Quote: As far as changing her name to 'get married' that's lame. I don't believe it. She's still married to you so I think it's really designed just to hurt YOU. And you don't have to have your 'maiden name' to get married to someone. I wouldn't give it much creedence.
I already chalked it up to her feelings of righteous vengeance for me. Makes her feel better about having an A right now, I suppose.
Quote: Overall HH I think you need to spank her more. It's one of the few instances where you MIL is right. Be firm but caring. SHe is way messed up and to be honest I think this is her TRUE nature.
Frank, what do you mean by her true nature? Specifically, what behavior? All of it?I do know this. She would always tell me specific behavior her mother would act out that W did not like. W would always tell me to tell her is she acted out ANY of those behavior. I would and she would just get pissed, so I stopped doing it. My W is one who will not allow anyone to stay in her life, unless that person bends their will to W's, other than her mother. BTW, W is just like her mother despite her protestations to that fact. She is MIL, jr. The apple certainly did not fall far from the tree.
And yet, I still pray that God will touch her heart so that she will be open to living her life differently. I pray that He will touch up ears so that she will hear His message. I pray that He will touch her eyes so that she will see His vision. I pray that He will continue to bestow His grace, patience, love, and mercy to her.
Quote: My point was that IF she continues this behavior then, well, then there will be some tough decisions for HH because while many of us have a usually "ok" WAS that is an a-hole because of an affair/MLC/whatever, HH's wife was (and of course we only have HIS side of the story) the a-hole in the R all along.
She behaved like a selfish A-hole in a lot of ways. Problem is I not only tolerated it, I nurtured her mistreatment of me. Everyonw saw how I doted on my W and our children, only to be mistreated and rebuffed regularly.
Quote: I think HH is starting to realize that putting up with a-hole behavior should be the exception NOT the rule in his marriage. I, like him, fear she may not change.
Yes, I can tolerate A-hole behavior as an exception, not as a regular mode of behavior or mistreatment of me. And yes, I do fear that she will NOT change. So...I am taking the proactive approach of praying regularly for OUR individual healing and R changing.
Quote: He claims she's been looking for a "get out of marriage card" from day... well... at least day 2 and now is acting like she's gotten it via his affair.
THAT is my feeling. BTW, in looking for my mediator docs, I came across my printouts of her e-mails (yes, I was snooping in the VERY beginning ) to her BF from 10 years ago in which she claimed to HATE it that my blood pumps thru the veins of our children. Mind you, these e-mails were going on in the DAYS after my F-up came to light. DAYS!! THAT is also why I believe that she was looking for a way out of our M. And this is after a M full of her D talk/threats. After that attempted R fizzled, she hooks up with current OM and starts talking about M with her 2nd OM in less that two months of being separated from her current H, me. Yes, M talk with at least two separate OM while she is still M to me and those are only the ones I know of. She is truly mixed up. hurt, angry, and looking to save face. And the uphill battle grows ever steeper and more difficult.
Quote: This has always been a tough sitch because of those things, and unfortunately for HH, I think it may continue to be such for awhile.
Most likely. Her pride will take us on a long arduous journey. What my W fails to realize is that my strength, stamina, commitment, peseverence, and yes, pride will outlast her pride. I KNOW I am on the right side of the right battle and my pride will not allow me to cede or fail. No white flags! I only need to continue GAL and to change my tactics in handling my interaction with W.
Quote: Sorry HH, I think you are doing GREAT. I just wish your W would follow suit.
No need to be sorry. I only wish I felt like I am doing great. The lack of positive movement in my sitch is discouraging/dishearenting, but great battles lead to wondrous celebrations in victory.
Quote: God grant me the courage not to give up on what I think is right even though I think it is hopeless. Amen
AMEN!
Quote: COURAGE-Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear--NOTabsence of fear.- MARK TWAIN
I have the courage to keep on keepin' on. I also have the courage to change "HOW" I am fighting the good fight so that I will win!
Quote: I think HH is in a place where he MAY be making tough decisions.
Tough decisions may be coming soon, but I again do not wish to give up on my M. For now I follow the line from the Serenity Prayer that AmyC bestowed up me, God grant me the courage not to give up on what I think is right even though I think it is hopeless. Amen I continue to fight through the fear of M failure and maintain my courage to hold onto my hope for the restoration and reconciliation of my M.
Quote: I'm having a hard time believing that she is going to change after HH changes HIS life to be better.
If I were sane, I'd side with your belief. Unfortunately (fortunately?), I am not sane when it comes to my belief in miracles. I am a believer!
Quote: I don't think she respects ANYBODY.
In her behavior lately, that is what it looks like. Unfortunately, that lack of respect mostly bleeds onto me. Doesn't make it right and doesn't make me feel good, but I think her behavior helps her ignore any "real" emotions about her current tactics and path.
Quote: I've seen people like that. Usually on Jerry Springer.
ROFLMAO, me too. Too bad with her present behavior W would be a great guest.
Can you give us some more insight into the way you and W interacted up to a year ago, and in the beginning of the M?
You seem to say that she was belittling you all the time. Can you explain? And did she do this when dating? How did you end up marrying her if that's the case? A little history would be helpful.
HH, there is no way she will come back to the relationship with you until you can prove to yourself and to her that you don't F*&^ING need her to survive. You said you had a codependent relationship, well she needs to see you are past that before she will move an inch. Right now she sees you as a pathetic person she can walk all over because, well, you have been UNTIL NOW. When you break that spell on yourself and you DON'T feel like you need her she will get scared because the train is leaving and she want's to be on it!
You need to say NO more often. Use your words carefully and say very liitle but know that what you DO say has impact.
Words are powerful tools. Never ever react to anything she says. Always stop and think before you respond. Always. And remember that sometimes the best response is to smile and walk away.
