Alex, a quick clarification. ML means making love. Don't feel like a goof, I had to read the part on this site about all the abbreviations, and I'm glad I did. When you get a chance, you may want to do that as well. It's at the fiirst part of this site, if I recall correctly. j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
just finished reading your whole post. It's my experience, and my close female friend's/sister's, that when we say we want "intimacy", we mean physically, and when we say emotional connection, we mean passion or romance. The single issue I'm contemplating for you, really overlaps with several. Sexual satisfaction, romance and passion, good conversations, time spent truly 'being' together, are sort of rolled up into one for me. Even though at times I'm able to compartmentalize, it's what I want all together. And very possibly it's what your W meant.
From where I sit, I think your w really needs you to "get it," and if you did, her deepest dreams would come true. These are dreams she may have let go because she just may not think it's possible for them to happen. Perhaps she wants to save both of you from sleepwalking through the rest of your M and lives.
Just my opinion. If things do work out for you and you reconcile, or if you don't but you still work on finding your passion, this whole experience may well heighten the level of "intention" in your life. Make sense?
Lastly, I do some stand up comedy as an avocation. So, the next sentence may not be applicable to "normal" people. But my H and I laugh a LOT in bed. It's fun. And fun is also a big aphrodesiac. j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
So yesterday I told my wife that I was working on my issues, especially sex and intimacy and I was very vulnerable and candid and authentic with her without being wimpy and weak. It felt like she heard what I said and she thanked me for sharing it. It was a way to convey to her "I get it" and I want a happy marriage, not just a marriage, that I never realized until now that she had been so lonely, that I never wanted her to be so lonely, that neither of us was getting what we needed but that we could work through that.
I felt good about our conversation.
Today I get an email from her inviting me to go with her for a workshop on divorce mediation for COUPLES. I felt devastated. WHAT???!!!
I want to spend my energy on coming together, not going apart. God, this is horrible.
"Sexual satisfaction, romance and passion, good conversations, time spent truly 'being' together, are sort of rolled up into one for me. Even though at times I'm able to compartmentalize, it's what I want all together. And very possibly it's what your W meant." I think that's right. As you can see in my message above, I told your advice and did what you suggested. It felt great, though risky, but I felt genuine. She corrected my use of the word sex with imtimacy, and so I think it is all of what you say.
She just seems to give up on me, in a way I don't want to give up on her. She can't seem to allow herslf to find her way back, to come together again to go forward, not back.
I don't want to sleepwalk through our marriage, but apparently she doesn't believe me.
Alex, how can she believe that kind of change could occur this fast? Of course she knows it'll take time and effort on both sides. She'll have to let you know what she wants/likes and take responsibility for expressing her needs to you. No two women are alike and men are not mind readers either.
Don't over react to the D mediation. Key in on the work mediation instead and I'll bet you a number of the couples attending those, end up NOT getting a d. Yes, I would prefer her asking you to go to Retrovaille or some other Marriage workshop (have you tried that?), but its' better than having 2 angry lawyers escalating everything...
Financially how will your wife do, without you? I know you don't want her to stay for those reasons, but whatever it takes to make them step back and think/THINK things out. As long as the end is that you stay M, happily.
Good luck and try no to expect too much too soon. If there is no OM, your chances are pretty darn good, especially since she listens to you and heard what you said enough to acknowlege it. Let it have time to sink in. Good luck, and check on the internet about M's encounters or workshops in your area. Some may not even require both partners.... j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Quote: Lastly, I do some stand up comedy as an avocation. So, the next sentence may not be applicable to "normal" people. But my H and I laugh a LOT in bed. It's fun. And fun is also a big aphrodesiac.
25yearsmlc...
Reading that just made me laugh out loud. It brought back good memories. I myself am the family comedian and my husband and I used to laugh sometimes so hard in bed just being silly that we thought we'd surely wake up the kids down the hall.
I hadn't heard about Retrouvaille Retrouvaille and so I see there is a program in our area in November. I may well suggest this to my wife. Thank you. We did go through Engagement Encounter before we got married. and I kept our notebooks, so perhaps this fits better than you know. I suspect she will say no, but it is worth a try. Some of the quotes from people who have gone through the program echo words she has said to me.
Financially my wife will do okay without me, since for years she has had a full-time professional career with her own pension, although it costs more as a single than as a couple and financial matters are not her strong point and money worries are a part of who she is.
I think there is an OM in the picture behind the scenes acting as a catalyst, if nothing else, (she says no affair) but I do not know what R they actually have, but it is more than casual friends -- confidant is the word she did use months ago; if I had to guess, I think she very much wants to just be by herself because she has not moved in with the OM and because she is immersed in the freedom to do whatever she wants whenever, however, with no one else to deal with.
Quote: Good luck and try no to expect too much too soon.
By Virginia law, time is running out, so the calendar works against me. We've now been separated 7 months; if we cannot agree on a separation agreement by 12 months, the court will decide for us; if we can agree (having been separated for at least 6 months and no children), then a D will be granted if she wants it.
My W has a wonderful laugh that I love to hear. I have not been blessed with a great laugh, mine is more inside than laughing out loud. But humor is a great healer and aphrodesiac, and it'd be great if we could reclaim that, especially in bed. I need to learn how to find my inner comedian, I guess. Go do improv??????
Now this is up my alley. Re: how to laugh hard and often: first of all, LET GO and do it. I have no idea why people hold laughter in, it's like holding back on an orgasm....
ANYHOW, try reading a book by Judy Carter called The Comedy BIble or her first book, The Stand UP Comedy Workbook, both of which are the textbooks used in stand up workshops here in LA. You do NOT have to be a comedian to get something out of the books. On the contrary, they also remind us to see the humor in every day life, including our dark days. Also to express it more so our lives are enriched, as well as the lives of those around us. 2nd, rent or buy comedy movies. If you can do that with your W, all the better. If not, do it for yourself and she'll see the lighter side of you. You can merely refer to the movies/comedies and she'll see a difference. I'm originally from northern Virginia and know that there are comedy clubs around there and in DC. If you can take her to see a good comedian, (not one who does too much "blue" humor, which is usually sexual and can make people uncomfortable, you want the Ellen DeGeneres, Jerry Seinfeld or Jay Leno types (yes, they ALL still do stand up, fyi) or just someone who is more "prime time" so you feel at ease.
An improv class is great for 2 things, losing inhibitions by the willingness to be goofy, and being able to think on your feet faster which is mostly for auditions. The improv classes will not however, help you to be wittier. Maybe faster, with you wit, but improv is more physical than Stand up, and is based on no preparation ahead of time. Stand up, requires your own material that has to be authentic for you. FYI, my last "gig" was based on my H's MLC and it went over well. Guess lots of people have R problems and some of them are universal.
As for the OM possibility; if she has not had a PA with him, she may be imagining something that is not at all based on reality. Even if she has had a PA, (and I'm NOT saying I think so!) it's not over for you yet.
Your W loves you, and if she trusts that your changes are real, you have so much going for you. When your W asked for the sep, who moved where and what reason(s) did she give at the time? I know some of what she says now, but has she been consistent?
Take care, j-
g out
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thanks for the tips and resources on laughing. I have a hunch that you are right, namely, that if I could open up that underdeveloped side of me, it would serve me well with my W but also in many other ways.
I genuinely don't know if my W has had a physical affair with the OM. The way she sometimes thinks is that if she did, she could never return because it would be wrong or she would have too much guilt to overcome. My view? If she did, yes, she could return but we would need to work through that; I don't know if she knows that.
Yesterday i did send an email reply back to her email invitation to do a divorce mediation workshop, saying I'd rather go to the Retrouville event. I included descriptions, the URL, noting the next one is around here Nov 3, and included some comments written by people who've gone. One was a woman who sounded like my W. My W's reply was not the angry no I expected, but "Thanks for the info" -- not sure what that means other than what it says. I will be seeing her tonight.
My W doubts that my changes will last beyond the current crisis. To answer your questions, my W moved out of the home and took a 12-mo apartment lease (could have taken a shorter time but said she wanted to save money with longer term). At the time, she said (her words) she was having a MLC, that we had grown emotionally distant, wanted intimacy but wasn't getting it, that it was all about her but that we were both too different from each other, that I didn't love to travel as she did, didn't have friends or a support system as she did, wasn't curious like her, and that it was too late to work on it and she didn't have the energy and had already worked on it several times before. She has made a virtue out of being consistent, saying she has closed the door and won't re-open it to work on any issues -- that's the word she uses again and again, "consistent," purposely not wanting to give me any hope.
But then she says she loves me, she initiates the contact, says she doesn't want to hurt me, acknowledges (a bit) she's going through some pain herself. I see her in two sides -- one that wants a divorce and is consistent, one that was the one who I married and love.
Quote: I have no idea why people hold laughter in, it's like holding back on an orgasm....
Hadn't thought of it that way, but yeah. Smiles.