Quote: Mojo: do agree that this is about MORE than sex/sexual frequency/HD/LD?
Yes, it is about my inability to stand up for myself. The sex problems are a symptom. If I was married to a HD man things might have gone bad in a different way.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Perhaps I should think of a consequence for the potential violation of our sexual agreement that wouldn't be so earth-shattering.
What I had in mind was something along the lines of letting him know that by turning you down, how much he has hurt your feelings and how lonely you might feel. That is every bit as much a consequence as whopping him upside the head, but it would be a 180 sort of consequence. It would also be more I line with the theme you seem to be developing for more honesty and acknowledging your own issues.
I know it is hard to do though, so why don’t you go first and then tell me how it works out (LOL!)
Anyway, I really think you’re doing great! While all the answers are still floating around, your eyes are open to seeing them, and that's really what its all about!
Yes, it is about my inability to stand up for myself. The sex problems are a symptom. If I was married to a HD man things might have gone bad in a different way.
This is so interesting.... you're still making yourself totally responsible for the problems in your M by saying that it's about your wimpiness/refusal to stand up for yourself.
And then you said that if you were with an HD man, you would have found other ways to screw up...
Aren't any of the problems in your marriage, sexual and otherwise, due to your H and his moods, quirks, refusal to take responsibility for himself, pickiness, crankiness, lack of respect for you-- IOW things about HIM that you cannot change entirely apart from his sex drive?
Quote: What I had in mind was something along the lines of letting him know that by turning you down, how much he has hurt your feelings and how lonely you might feel. That is every bit as much a consequence as whopping him upside the head, but it would be a 180 sort of consequence. It would also be more I line with the theme you seem to be developing for more honesty and acknowledging your own issues.
I guess I don't see how this would be a 180 for me given my previous identity as super cry-baby. A very common reaction throughout my marriage before I joined this BB to sexual rejection was to cry and ask for comfort. A typical interaction might go like:
Mojo: Would you like to have sex?
H: No.
Mojo: Crying "Can I have a hug? I feel so alone."
H: No. It is perverse for you to ask me for comfort when I am the one who made you cry.
Therefore, the expression of feelings of hurt is your 180 and not mine, so I guess you are on your own.- LOL.
The expression of feelings of anger or "stand-up-for-myself-ness" is more of a 180 for me. Also, you have to remember that, unlike you and I, my H had a very smothering-love, guilt-provoking, type mother so he sees expressions of that sort as manipulative even if they are honest. My H would MUCH rather hear me say "I am going to leave your *ss if you don't f*ck me proper." than "I am so sad because you are not making me feel loved through the act of coitus.". His emotional response to the first would be "Good for you!" and his emotional response to the second would be "That's your problem.". It has obviously taken me years to figure this out but it really is true.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: Aren't any of the problems in your marriage, sexual and otherwise, due to your H and his moods, quirks, refusal to take responsibility for himself, pickiness, crankiness, lack of respect for you-- IOW things about HIM that you cannot change entirely apart from his sex drive?
Of course, in fact I would be so bold as to say that IMO more than 50% could be laid at his doorstep since even he would admit that he makes a worse roommate than me, but if we are discussing the things that "I" can fix these issues are irrelevant.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
As long as you remember that you cannot control him or change him even if you do everything "right" (by his definition).
Frankly I can't find one darned thing "wrong" with any of the behavior you do that bugs him, including, asking for a hug when he has behaved badly... I know HE'S the one you're trying to get along with, not me, but the stuff he is finding fault with is entirely within the bounds of normal, civil, acceptable, non-weird behavior. However, HIS disrespect of YOU violates my particular standards of civility.
What I'm getting at is don't let him convince you that treating you/speaking to you like crap (e.g., "you're too fat to turn me on") is something you deserve and that it's normal/okay behavior. It's not.
I guess I don't see how this would be a 180 for me given my previous identity as super cry-baby. A very common reaction throughout my marriage before I joined this BB to sexual rejection was to cry and ask for comfort.
I disagree. I think your crying before may have been from a sense of self pity, low self esteem, etc., in a way asking him to rescue you, which was beyond his ability or capacity. It actually heightened his sense of guilt and inadequacy and was an attempt to throw your stress and anxiety onto him, like the hot potato no one wants to handle.
However with a strong sense of self, showing your emotions does not have to give the same message. I think it can be conveyed more in a spirit of honest disclosure, and as long as you don’t become reactive, it will let him see up close the hurtfulness of his actions. I don’t think you should cry, but just tell him how you feel. To you it may look like you are doing the same thing, but I think it is completely different. It is the strong, emotionally anchored person guiding the child with simple fact, explaining the action/reaction of relationships without assigning blame or guilt
Quote: As long as you remember that you cannot control him or change him even if you do everything "right" (by his definition).
I really do try to spend my energy on fixing the things that are "wrong" with me in any context. I am a nerd so I take comfort in objective standards. I would be a basket case if I took all of my H's pickyness to heart rather than just finding most of it annoying.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
My ex-H was prone to picking and in the end I just kinda felt like gumby. I know what you mean about the consequences of taking all the picking to heart. Before he came home I used to spend the last 30 min to 1 hour (I was a SAHM) running around trying to put on a little lipstick, run the vacuum in the traffic areas, wipe surfaces etc... to ensure that there were fewer things to pick at... Then, that would be the night he would instead pick on me being too fastidious and not spontaneous enough. Ex-H moved the cheese all the time so there really were no "standards" per se.
I think your H does this a bit too and I sense you continuing to try to determine just where that cheese is only to keep coming up cheeseless. Of course, that is because your H keeps moving the cheese to try to find the perfect spot/perfect standard and it isn't the cheese's location that is the problem!
I think you were on to something a while back in your thread(s) when you determined that some things were legitimate beefs with a logical answer but they didn't have much to do with sex. For example, "Your butt looks big in those pants is a legitimate reason to say - "Hey sweetie, I don't care for the look of those pants how about we go shopping on Saturday for a new pair?" or after dinner to say, "How about we go for a nice family walk?" but not to refuse sex. Remember what I'm getting at?
It is ok to respect some of his preferences but it is equally important to comply with yours. What kind of look do you genuinely like? What foods do you genuinely enjoy cooking and eating? Just reminding you not to lose you.
