Quote: Unless the boy sees an adult alpha male who is in charge of himself and not controlled by the female he can see no way out of this situation. So no matter how sweet natured a wife he ends up with he will still be angry at the controlling mother figure.
My MIL is definitely more in the smothering role than the controlling role but I guess that is just a different version. Recently we were at her house for dinner and she asked my H to go outside to do a minor task for her. When he walked in the house she said "You're going to wash your hands, right?". My teenage children who are pretty sophisticated started laughing at this because they could recognize how inappropriate it was directed at a 42 year old man and they know that my MIL drives my H crazy at times. I had to make mock strict faces at them to shush them and work really hard to stop myself from cracking up. My H is pretty self-aware and will laugh at these type of encounters with his mother and say things to me like "Is it any wonder I am the way I am?".
His FIL is pretty Alpha in the John Wayne type mold. Unfortunately, much too cold, conservative and reserved to interact well with a Type 4 son like my H. He dumped my MIL for another woman in another state after almost 30 years of marriage a couple monthes after I married my H. This led to further estrangement between father and son. If I had been older and wiser at the time I might have taken some action to mediate this breach.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I have totally enjoyed your latest babblings, Mojo. The stories of the fort were great. I loved the way you likened it to primitive children left to their own devices. Babble on.
And Fran, your statement about how you married a man who was mad at his mother, and then he transferred his anger toward you, really rang a bell. My W is mad at her father, and, as I mentioned on my thread, I have found some relief from my resentment by reframing her rants at me as her mind replaying the rants she endured from her father.
Quote: I have totally enjoyed your latest babblings, Mojo. The stories of the fort were great. I loved the way you likened it to primitive children left to their own devices. Babble on.
Okay- LOL. My fort adventures were actually kind of Peace-Between-the-Sheety in a way. The combination of the fact that we were really nice suburban kids playing at being wild than actual street youth, the lack of birth control access, low level sexual skills and experience across the board and ready access to pot made it definitely a scene that was much higher on arousal than orgasm. As I recall one of the factors that led to the end of our adventures was that one of the girls decided that she was okay with giving head (the other factor was that the farmer whose property we were trespassing on started to get wise to our activities).
Another note on the idea of trying to be more "girl-like". When I was around 18 I went through a phase where I felt guilty for my earlier sluttishness and I read a book or an article on the concept of "reclaiming your virginity". What a complete and utter disaster that experiment was. I will be laughing about it when I am an old lady in my rocking chair. I think the guys I went out with during that phase probably remember me as a c*ck-tease mental case. I got stranded at a state park overnight with a guy after a party during this phase and I would describe his mental state by dawn as a bad mix of angry and confused. If you think it s*cks to interact with a woman who is LD try interacting with a woman who is HD and pretending to be LD- LOL.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Back to 2006. What I haven't revealed to the BB is that back at the beginning of this month when I flipped out because my H didn't honor his commitment to having sex with me on the day that I ovulate, I actually did tell him that I was going to file for divorce. I know most of you are thinking "Big deal, the two of you have been on the brink of divorce umpteen times since you joined this BB.". The difference is that every other time he was the one who was like "I'm out of here" in response to my requests for more sex. This was the first time that I actually was ready to hit the highway. So there really is no need for complicated theories to explain my H's better behavior over the last few weeks. He knows I wasn't just threatening in order to get what I wanted. I really was completely fed up. I didn't come out with this before because I felt like I was mental because I couldn't figure out exactly why I backed down. The best explanation I have is that he gave me the vibe that he would be a "good winner" if I did.
So for the past few weeks he mostly has been a "good winner" but yesterday morning he started back on some of his same old cr*p and that was why I was angry again when I responded on the BB. However, and this is a big "however", I didn't respond in the same old way to his same old cr*p and it made a difference. In the past his cr*ppy behavior would make me nervous and give me a feeling like their was something that I needed to fix. In a weird way it was almost like cr*ppy behavior would make me more HD. It's not that I'm a masochist and cr*p behavior directly makes me horny. The dynamic is that cr*p behavior makes me not want to be in a relationship with my H. I don't like feeling like I don't want to be in a relationship with my H so I seek out the thing that adds the most value to a relationship for me which is sex. So my behavior in the past was quite perverse because I would sometimes seek sex when I was least likely to be successful in actually getting it. Yesterday my H's cr*p behavior actually almost made me feel kind of LD and it definitely made me withdraw. He asked me to cut his hair which is usually a sensual activity for me and I got no sexual vibe whatsoever. My H became quite placating later in the day as he sensed my coolness. This didn't turn me on either. What might have turned me on would have been a straight-forward apology for disrespectful behavior. Of course, he didn't actually propose any sex so it quite possible that I would have been as much of a Weeble as ever.
P.S. If any of you are confused about the fact that I have indicated that I both can and can't imagine myself as LD in my last few posts, imagine how confused I am.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
First, I know what it is like to be rejected or semi-rejected when you had agreed ahead of time that there would be sex during ovulation. I am so with you there. One of those events also led to a conversation with H that resulted in some placating behaviors and later, him reverting back to his same ol crap. I don't know that I have any suggestions other than to gently, firmly call him on the crap.
Quote: First, I know what it is like to be rejected or semi-rejected when you had agreed ahead of time that there would be sex during ovulation. I am so with you there.
Thank you my sister in husband induced hysteria.
Quote: One of those events also led to a conversation with H that resulted in some placating behaviors and later, him reverting back to his same ol crap. I don't know that I have any suggestions other than to gently, firmly call him on the crap.
I should clarify that his cr*p behavior is what I believe to be his "offense is the best defense" approach to avoiding sex with me. He probably assumed that I would want to have sex yesterday since I didn't get any on the weekend because I was having a heavy period. He wasn't in the mood so he acted like a jerk all morning. It really makes me livid that he frequently acts jerky in response to me eating. It's like it's not enough to simply tell me I'm fat he wants to drive me into complete anorexia. I sat down at the coffee table with a bowl of grape nuts and he gave me a look that I could best describe as the look the mean cool kid would give to the fat kid if the fat kid dared to sit down at the lunch table with him. Fortunately for me, I gave myself a little reality check before I reacted to his behavior. I just checked off some little boxes in my mind. Have I been overeating lately? No. Have I in fact lost a few more pounds recently? Yes. Have I also been working out like a fiend? Yes. Do I in fact look pretty good today? Yes, I am wearing new green t-shirt which several people have complimented me on and my hair is especially cute and fluffy today. Therefore is my H simply acting like an irrational *sshole who I should ignore? Yes. -So, that's what I did.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I cannot believe how mean he is to you... and how you seem to be used to it and blow it off. It makes me really sad when you talk about him giving his "reasons" for why you don't turn him on. That's just being mean... he doesn't seem like a very kind person.
I should clarify that his cr*p behavior is what I believe to be his "offense is the best defense" approach to avoiding sex with me. __________________________________________________________
I have experienced this too. My H's form of offense is to pre-emtively talk about how "tired" he is or to deflect any of what looks like desirous behavior on my part - HP refers to this as "wax on/wax off." I detest the reality that he does this stuff to deter me from wanting sex with him. The thing is that I have resilient sexuality - I can often get past any initial pissed feelings that would keep me from wanting sex. You are this way too. I wonder if your H gets extra crappy because you are so naturally resilient. One of my big difficulties in my M is that I find myself hiding my "enthusiasm" when H does show a little extra affection - I do this for fear of "scaring him off." Like you, the biggest area at issue is the part that occurs between life and sex. While I would like H to be more experimental etc...I could live with the actual sex as long as the desire and sexual negotiation piece went better.
K
PS Did you want to have sex during ovulation just because you are extra horny then or are you trying to get pregnant? Is your H on board with the idea of pregnancy?
In the past his cr*ppy behavior would make me nervous and give me a feeling like their was something that I needed to fix.
It seems to me that reverting to sex is one way you “fix” things. When you fix you are rescuing him, but aren’t you in some way rescuing yourself, because what is rescuing or fixing anyway? Isn’t it just one way to get control over a chaotic or anxious situation and therefore isn’t it a way to sooth your fears?
In a weird way it was almost like cr*ppy behavior would make me more HD.
That makes sense to me if I think about there being a link between sex drive and anger. Could it be that the crappy behavior is a recall from your past that correlates with sex? Your thoughts on your childhood were very interesting. One thing I wonder about is how the boys treated you as a person, did they respect you, were they polite and courteous, or were they crappy? I wonder if they knew what you all were doing was wrong (or at least knew their parents would probably not approve had they known) and when the boys were alone, what would they say about the girls? Would they talk about them in disrespectful ways? It is hard for me to imagine that did not have some thoughts like this. But it is in that very situation where you learned to get approval and acceptance from males, isn’t it? So wouldn’t it make sense that your associate crappy behavior from men with high sex drive?
Also, can’t this type of group sex lead to distancing of emotions and intimacy? I am only asking since I do not have experience here (though I can dream, right? LOL!). Anyway, could this experience have caused you to focus on the physical sex part and shut down on the emotional connection part?
Quote: I cannot believe how mean he is to you... and how you seem to be used to it and blow it off. It makes me really sad when you talk about him giving his "reasons" for why you don't turn him on. That's just being mean... he doesn't seem like a very kind person.
Well, you are a kind person. One time when I confronted him about his "bullying" behavior he said something along the lines of "Sometimes that's all I've got.". I understand that it's a reflection of feelings of low self-esteem and anxiety on his part so I try to be compassionate and ignore it. It used to make me cry like a baby but not any more. Sometimes I wonder if that is a good thing, whether I've actually grown stronger or just more thick-skinned over the last couple years.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
It makes me really sad when you talk about him giving his "reasons" for why you don't turn him on. That's just being mean... he doesn't seem like a very kind person.