Fighting the Hard Fight

[chromosphere]

Bear,

Hope you are still around. I didn't forget. I've been in Boston doing research and the room I'm in has no privacy, so its hard to post on a forum called the Sex Starved Marriage without attracting unwanted attention. I did skim to see the good news from Karen though.

"So how are you doing on the AD's?"

Can't really feel any difference. I'll probably need to go back to see the doctor again and/or make an appointment with an actual psychiatrist at some point. Still have way too many moments of sadness. Was talking to my W on messenger earlier and she needed to leave and I've just been wallowing in sadness ever since. Maybe my dosage is too low.

"Yep, but I think you can decide how much importance to assign them (feelings, emotions)."

That is the key, and what I have a hard time with. I tend to focus on trying to feel the "right way" and instead I need to focus on responding to my feelings the right way.

"That one kind of hurt to read. I know my XH used to think this way too. Even though he didn't say it out loud, I could read his disappointment. The result was that I felt that I could never be enough or do enough for him and I resented having to try so hard and then watch him still be disappointed that I wasn't his idea of perfection. He certainly wasn't mine either, but I did try to get to a point where I could appreciate what he WAS doing."

I know, being happy with what you have is the right way to be. But how do you take a situation in which you are unhappy and make it better WITHOUT pressing the issue. The key is to press the issue without it coming across as judgemental or seeming like you demand nothing less than perfection. But for a person who is stuck (or content), any pressure for change can be misinterpreted as demanding too much. Hence comments like "you are trying to change who I AM" will be spoken.

I will say I do my best to validate my W, but your comments that I may be giving off subtle clues about my disappointment is helpful to me. I guess in this case I need to actually focus instead of defocus. Hmmm, seems like there might be something worth remembering here. When you are sad about something, defocus, look at the bigger picture and see that things aren't all that bad (hopefully). When you are happy about something, focus on that and not on some larger goal or issue that will leave you only wanting for more.

"There were no PDA's between my parents."

Oddly, the same is true for both me and my W. But I have an intense need for physical affection, while my W does not.

"I didn't really allow myself to have fantasies. I could never come up with one when asked. I was too worried about what people might think of me. Got to keep up the appearance of good girl."

I think you and my W are very similar in that respect. In many of our discussions she often says "what would others think of that?" When I talked with my C about it, he said it was a shame-based OCD very common among rural Southern women (although definitely not exclusive). The constant worry that someone will think ill of you if for example they see your house in "disarray." Every party we have ever had is preceeded by several days of foul-tempered worry about making sure the house is "right." It almost doesn't seem worth it having two or three stressful days for just a couple of hours of fun.

A revealing story about the college break-up Bear. Sounds like it is still a very painful memory for you.

"My needs were not being met, but I was people pleasing in a big way. I started to really resent that."

I guess the question I would ask was, did he know what your needs were? When people are in people-pleasing mode (believe me I know all about that) they can completely hide their needs from others. And while the resentment builds because the needs aren't being met, nobody really knows what the needs are, even the person hiding them. That was in large part how I was prior to my EA. The few times I tried to let my needs show, I'm sure I wasn't able to express them very clearly.

"Even when things were going well, I knew it wouldn't last for long so it was hard to invest 100% in it."

That comment strikes a chord with me because it is one of my major problems. I tend to look ahead during a vacation to the time it will be over and start thinking about how much I will miss the "fun" instead of having fun.

" also heard Dr. Phil talk about a man's sexual needs in terms of if your H woke in the middle of the night and needed a glass of water, wouldn't you get him a drink? Why would you deny such a basic need as sex? I also had a back injury at this time and was in a lot of pain and XH would give me back rubs. We had gone down the road of "Why can't a back rub be JUST a backrub?" but when I was in a lot of pain, it was just a back rub even though I knew he wanted more."

Another chord struck. One of the issues we have to deal with in our sex life is pain during IC. It is hard for her to get in the mood when she is thinking "this is going to hurt." So I can see it as a reason to deny a basic need. Which is one of the reasons I want to explore all of the non-IC forms of sexual pleasure more than we do. While I do get the most pleasure from IC, I would definitely be ok with making that infrequent. But one problem is the "good girl" in her says that anything other than IC is for "sluts" only.

VERY cool step with the massages, very inventive.

"But I realized during this process that his enjoyment was working to get me going too."

I think that is one of the keys. Enjoyment is infectious, especially if the enjoyment of another is in your "hands" (no pun intended). Many times when I am sitting there stewing over something or another, the thought will intrude "well she certainly isn't going to be attracted to you while you are like this!"

"Trust was key here because if I didn't want to do more than the massage for whatever reason, he didn't resent it or act like he was disappointed. KWIM? What I was willing to give was good enough and he was happy with it."

This is another key, and as you mentioned earlier, one I have problems with. I guess the problem is that so long as I knew that SOME backrubs would end up being more than others, I would be happy with some backrubs being just backrubs. It is when you wonder whether or not any of the backrubs in the forseeable future are going to be more, that it starts to intrude on the enjoyment of the just backrubs. I hope that makes sense.

"Ok, gotta go put together a treasure hunt for my daughters pirate party tomorrow! Have a good weekend."

Hope it went well. I am definitely looking forward to doing stuff like that with my daughters soon. They just turned 3 and are starting to really get into pretend play-time and stuff like that. Well, at least prenteding that has some logical sense to it, so that something organized would be fun for them instead of just letting them play with random toys.

"Reverse the roles and figure out what you aren't providing for her (what she really needs, not what you think her needs are) and try to start there."

I am trying to do that. But the problem is that when we do talk about her needs, they are things I am already giving her (which she readily admits) such as a nice home and stable income, or things she already has (children, lives near her extended family), or are things I can't provide or have nothing to do with me (time alone to herself in the evenings to unwind, a spotless house). We have been going through His Needs, Her Needs, and the results have been strange. I have found a strong need for all of the needs listed (both the male and female side, while she has expressed little need for the "female" needs (affection, conversation, etc.) AND for the male needs (sex, recreational companionship, etc.). But as I have stated several times already, I am hopeful that this is mostly due to a combination of me not being a good husband and her being overwhelmed by young children. I am hopeful for a better future.

"Either that or present her with the massage idea."

Well, she doesn't like backrubs, only foot and leg rubs (so long as I don't go too high on the leg). She instead like back-scratches. Don't know why, but I'm not complaining.

Chrome