Fighting the Hard Fight

[chromosphere]

IHJ

Thank you for your kind words of support. It really does help a lot knowing that there are people pulling for you, especially the ones who know the feelings, passions, difficulties, depressions, etc. that we go through. It also helps to know that the mistakes I made, while abhorrent, are not so terrible that I need to continue to beat myself up over them indefinitely. Like you said, I just need to take it one day at a time. Maybe today I don't make all the best decisions, but I can always try to make tomorrow a better day and one day I will look back and be proud of who I am.

Thanks again. I wish you well too.

Chrome

[chromosphere]

Hello Bear. Interesting name!

I have been lurking and reading this board for awhile, and I just wanted to say that you have a lot of people supporting your efforts right now. I know that I got a lot out of the self-esteem stuff you were posting also.

Just like I said to IHJ, it means A LOT to me to have people pulling for me. As a scientist and a skeptic, I don't really believe in all the psychic stuff. But it is kinda funny how you just KNOW when friends are thinking positive thoughts about you and wishing you well. I am glad you got something out of the self-esteem thread. My own self-esteem has taken a major pitfall. But I pulled myself out of it once, I can do it again.

I too have struggled with self-esteem issues and depression, as well as seeking my happiness through what someone else thought of me.

It is such a powerful drug, getting that positive attention from someone. Like Lou said, I do seek attention in an unhealthy way. I'm not sure if I want to be the center of attention in a group, but one on one I do crave positive attention way too much. I never have really taken that soul-searching journey to find my own core of happiness apart from anyone else. Maybe it is time, but how does one truly go about it?

I did not cross that line but I did put a toe over it. Isn't it a terrible struggle that the thing that can make you feel so loved and alive is also the thing that can make you hate yourself?

You hit the nail on the head with that statement. I put the toe over, felt the thrill followed by the self-hate, and pulled back. But the self-hate wasn't enough to keep me from putting that toe back over, followed by the whole foot and then a leg. All the while I kept rationalizing that I wasn't getting what I needed in my M, even telling myself I never would, not realizing what a self-fulfilling prophecy that is. Fog is an appropriate word.

I came to the point that I had to choose to live by MY standards. My standards dictated that I not seek that kind of validation from anyone other than myself. Ultimately, it meant the end of my marriage but I must point out that my XH was abusive and alcoholic. REALLY easy to justify seeking comfort elsewhere in that situation.

I am certainly happy that you were able to find your sense of self. I hope you are doing well in your current situation.

You have waaaay more to work with, and waaaaay more worth saving than I did.

I agree, but ...

You are right that my situation does not have the obvious problems of alchoholism, physical abuse, verbal abuse, etc. The problem is more insidious especially for someone like me who thinks way too much about things. The fact of the matter is I don't know if I will ever be able to find happiness in my marriage, if my W will ever be able to meet the needs that I have. But it has nothing to do with her being a bad person, she just isn't the touchy-feely, romantic, sweet-talking, sex kitten that I want (boy am I selfish, eh?). So the question is (and this seems to be probably the most common situation of people on this board), which do I give up, my need for romanticism, or the happy home (kids, good job, family support, etc.)? Maybe she can change, but she has to want to for some reason. How long do I wait? What can I do? The answers to most of these questions are that I just need to be the best person I can be. But still there is that nagging doubt. One day at a time, that is all I can do.

I'm sure you go into something like that thinking that you must be prepared to give up all the friendship and support that you had here.

Well, I'm sure I did lose some of it, but that is to be expected.

The mistakes we ALL make are just that...mistakes. They are not WHO we are. They are just things we did wrong (sometimes for what seems like all the right reasons). Your validation and self esteem will come from realizing what your values are and holding your head high when you are living by them.

Good words, good words. I will try to live by them.

Thanks so much Bear. I hope you decide to stay on board here.

Chrome

[chromosphere]

Fran

It is that sense of entitlement that holds us back,

You are right about that. When I am sitting there feeling put off because my W is just a few feet away from me but makes no attempt to touch me, I will think "why is this bothering me? am I entitled to have someone want to touch me all the time (or at least as much as I want it)?" and I can usually calm myself down and not let the sense of entitlement translate into doing or saying something stupid.

I'm looking forward to hearing more from you again - been missing you

Thanks!

Chrome

[chromosphere]

Or do you intend to come clean with her during the 1st session the two of you attend? If so, I can understand doing that...just checking.

I am following the advice of my current C. Although I am sure several people will disagree, I have just made a decision to trust his judgement. He feels that talking about it with the MC, and coming up with a plan on how to deal with the aftermath is a smart move. A very possible outcome of coming clean is an extended period of complete or near-complete withdrawal from my W. I need to be strong enough to handle that sort of environment if it comes, and not do something stupid that would just make it worse. Does that make sense?

Chrome

[chromosphere]

Thanks for the well-wishing Pepper. It does mean a lot to me.

Chrome

[karen1]

Chrome,

For now - follow your C despite what anyone else says. Your C will be a good judge of when/if to come clean and how much. There are times when I honestly think that if H was having an affair I wouldn't really want to know much about it - I would only want to know that it had stopped, that he was genuinely sorry and what steps he would take to have it not happen again. Other times I think the opposite. Who knows?

I hope you figure things out for the sake of your entire family.

Karen

[Greeneyedlass]

Chrome,

I won't disagree that talking to your MC about the possible aftermath is probably a good approach. I just was truly trying to make sure that you realized that at some point coming clean is still an absolute must...and that you hadn't possibly convinced yourself (due to time passing) that "well maybe if I just don't say anyting at all everything will be fine....she doesn't have to know."...that kind of thing.

I suppose I'm coming at it from the betrayed spouse's perspective that...the longer you put it off, the more pain and resentment you will add....because (just IMPO) it's that much longer that she is the pawn of a deception, living a life that is not the reality she believes it to be. I can tell you that it wasn't just the fact that my H did what he did in our M that truly pissed me off...it was the fact that I felt that HE had me living a lie and knew it....because he of course knew what was going on (as do you), but I didn't. I felt like a pawn, that is I fear how your W will feel as well. I suppose that's why I urge you to not wait too long.

I don't say that to preach at you, or to convince you to come clean right this second. Just giving you some food for thought on how this will make her feel, so perhaps you will know how to approach things when you do come clean.

Good luck!
GEL

[Greeneyedlass]

Karen,

It's interesting...what you said about "if your H were to have an affair you might not want to know about it....that you would just want to know it had ended etc."

I thought along those lines too....prior to finding out about my H's own deceptions in our M. On another BB I participate on that's line of thinking is not so uncommon among betrayed spouses...prior to finding out their spouse has cheated on them. It's almost amazing how quickly that thought vanishes when the betrayed spouse finds out they have in fact been betrayed....once you thought you would only want to know it had ended, then you find out....you want to know ALL the details. I'm not saying all betrayed spouses will want to know absolutely everything, but often there is almost an obsession about having questions answered when you find out someone you love and trust has betrayed you. Also...just a healing note here for Chrome...be open to answering your W's questions when she asks them (and she very likely will)...having the spouse who cheated...answer the betrayed spouse's questions is what enables them to heal their marriage and move forward, rebuild trust....the betrayed spouse will likely go on a quest for answers. The person who cheated...needs to provide answers as best he/she can.

Not preaching at anyone about this....just addressing your comment, that was once a thought I had as well.

GEL

[Bear]

Hello Bear. Interesting name!


Hi Chrome, the name comes, in part, from an old nickname Pooh Bear, part growly bear (dealing with a lot of anger at the moment), bearing the load (I'm a single mom), "bear"ing my soul (in this anonymous forum)...you get the idea.

I pulled myself out of it once, I can do it again.



ABSOLUTELY! What work are you doing toward that right now?

I never have really taken that soul-searching journey to find my own core of happiness apart from anyone else. Maybe it is time, but how does one truly go about it?


Weeeelllll, I wish I had the magic answer for you, but just knowing it's a journey you need to take is a good first step. For me, I had to take myself out of a situation where I was expected to change who I was based on who he was that day. Talk about unhealthy! I had reached a point that I didn't even know what my true feelings were anymore. I was one of those people who cried while I still had a smile on my face. So, getting out of that situation and actually feeling my feelings again made me confront some entirely different issues. My FOO issues are that although my dad was brilliant, and an excellent provider, he was kind of a control freak and not very affectionate. I craved HIS attention but was looking for it from other people. I wanted to feel loved for who I was. I wanted that platonic, fatherly love and attention and support. When I first got involved with my XH, that's what hooked me. He filled that void. Once it became a sexual relationship, I felt like a big part of that went away and all he wanted was the sex. No more affectionate touch or flowers or romance. I felt like I had to earn love, mostly by having sex. He felt like he had to earn sex and he resented it. I'm getting off track here but the point is, in order to find yourself, listen to yourself. REALLY listen. When you want the sex kitten, what is the feeling you are trying to get from that?


self-fulfilling prophecy

It certainly is. When you have that sort of idea in your mind, you spend all your time looking for signs that it's true. At least in my experience. What if you turned it around and kept the thought that you will be happy and looked for signs that prove that? The smallest gesture will then become hope for what could be instead of proof of what it isn't. Just a thought.


I am certainly happy that you were able to find your sense of self. I hope you are doing well in your current situation

Thank you. It has been a rough road and I feel like I am still just starting to get to know me. I moved out of state, am raising my daughter on my own, went back to school, and have been hibernating for the last year. I have recently started seeing someone though and luckily he's willing to take things slow. That is confusing in itself but that's a story for another thread.


someone like me who thinks way too much about things

My brother and I call this analysis paralysis. He recently went through a really rough time. It started out being about a woman but has now turned into a deconstruction of his whole life. He's too smart for his own good sometimes. Very scientific and logical, not the qualities to figure out relationships with! Like me, he had to reach the bottom and learn how to feel his own feelings again.

she just isn't the touchy-feely, romantic, sweet-talking, sex kitten that I want (boy am I selfish, eh?).

Not selfish Chrome. You want what you want. My hope would be that your wife's incentive to change would be to make a happy marriage, but that will take a lot of communication and effort on both your parts. In my experience with XH, I reached a point that I was able to see and feel the closeness that came after ML. I too was one who needed to "feel" it before I could get into it. And often times, I didn't feel it (life, stress, sick parents, back injury etc. all took thier toll). But I was able to eventually get past that and usually just starting the process was enough to get me going. It was rough getting to that place mentally though. I was always a "good" girl so good girls don't initiate, they just get swept away. To initiate and to want sex meant that you were slutty. I wish I could explain better the thought process that got me there but mostly it was a decision to act loving toward my husband. I realized that the closeness I craved came after the ML sometimes instead of before, and that it was ok that his needs were first on the list.

Thanks so much Bear. I hope you decide to stay on board here.

Thanks Chrome. I'll be around. I'm not technically in a SSM anymore but I feel like I have some things in common with a few people here. Plus, you all are so nice!

Time for sleep!

Bear

[Bear]

PS. GEL is a wise woman and made a great point. (btw, hi GEL and thanks for the welcome )
When you talk to your wife about this, come from a place of letting her feel her emotions and ask her questions in a safe place with you. Don't fall into the trap of diminishing her by explaining why it happened. All she will hear is that you are blaming her.

Bear