Well, I want to give an update as I passed another "Thursday Night", and as I didn't really expect, it once again turned into a disaster. I'm sure I'll get beaten up for this, but the situation turned a bit crazy...
To catch you up, early last week, I presented the idea that we have scheduled sex, with Thursday nights being our time, so that we would both know what is going on. Last week didn't go well and I ended up with crap pity sex, and one angry wife. I felt awful about this and earlier this week, I just canceled the whole idea.
Soooo, to last night. In typical "me" fashion.. I blew it.. Earlier in the evening I made some kind of in-passing comment that reminded her of the whole scheduled sex idea. I was trying to just tease a little and make her smile. She took it the wrong way, that I was trying for sex again after letting her off the hook just a few days ago. She immediately got pouty and quiet.
After putting the kids to bed last night, I went to go get something out of our room where my wife had already gone to bed. And to my surprise, there was my wife, lying naked under the covers. She said she was just waiting for me to come to bed (and I don't mean this in a positive, loving tone) and that she would appreciate it if I would hurry so she could get to sleep and we could just get things over with. I immediately said "no, I made a comment that was misinterpreted, intended just for fun.. I am not going to have sex with you like this, when you are angry. It supposed to be about loving each other and being in a place where we can both enjoy it. I am not going to do it, like this, so please get dressed so you can go to sleep." Then I left the room, quite proud of myself for standing up for what is right, respecting myself, and getting away from the situation.
After finishing my own projects, it was eventually time for me to go to bed. I came in expecting her to be zonked out. Instead, she was still wide awake, glaring at me.. and still naked. She said "I am not going to sleep tonight until you get in this bed and do it!" Red flags waived all over and I was like "whoa! No no no no no! Definitely NOT like this! PLEASE, get dressed so we can go to sleep," I then got undressed (ready to sleep, not naked) and got into bed to go to sleep. She said "oh no you don't go to sleep! You are going to get this done! You asked for it, now you can;t just back out when I offer to go through with it." I said "A. I didn't ask for it, I made a little comment trying to make you smile that was misinterpreted. Once I realized this, I apologized. and B. There is no way I am going to have sex under these conditions... in-fact I don't think I can.. as it's kind of vital that a guy is turned on in order to have sex and seeing you angry is anything but a turn on, so technically, it can't happen."
She then got really angry.. In a nutshell I was accused of.. once again being totally selfish. She felt she had two choices... either allow me to have sex, or spend the whole night feeling like a total failure as a wife and a person. And "what kind of person would I be to sentence my wife to a night of torture and feeling like crap". She said if I continued to ride this new high ground and stay away from her then I got to have a good nights sleep, feeling like I "did the right thing" meanwhile leaving her to stew all night feeling miserable and like some sub human being and that would be totally selfish of me to do to her. She wasn't going to allow this to happen regardless of what she had to do. I said "I'll just go to the couch.." she said "I will just follow behind then, because once again... I WILL NOT GO TO SLEEP TONIGHT UNTIL YOU DO THIS.. AND NEITHER WILL YOU!"
So there I was.. stuck.. knowing what I SHOULD do, but not knowing how to get away from her. Fast forward to 2 AM, nothing has changed. Each time I start to drift off, she says "wake up, you haven't finished" and there she sits, arms folded, still undressed and waiting. I had had a busy day, I was exhausted and knew I had a busy day today.. she was starting to wear me down, not because I felt this was the right thing to do, but because I knew, knowing my wife, that she would not give this up. Once she is set on a course, she will NOT deviate, regardless of the consequences. She can be one of the most stubborn people I have ever met. So finally, after 2 am I just said to myself "fine, this is totally not what I wanted, but this is getting ridiculous and I need sleep or I will never get through the day." And so I mustered what I could to "make things happen.... enough" and did it. Quick. As quick as possible just to get it done so she'd sleep and let me sleep as well.
This morning, she seemed tired and not particularly happy (for obvious reasons) but said she would be back, naked in bed again next Thursday, only this time silent and without an attitude so I could get my business done early. By this time I was sick of the whole mess, and just shook my head in frustration and left for work.
This is starting to feel like the story about a parent, who when they hear that their kid is curious about smoking, makes them smoke a whole pack, so that by the end the kid is so sick from cigarrettes the last thing they ever want to do is go anywhere near them again. It feels like she is working overtime to just destroy the whole sexual experience and make it so uncomfortable for me to even joke about it, knowing that this is how she COULD react, that I will never want to go near sex again. Then she finally gets to have her way. She gets the husband who doesn't want anything to do with sex and she gets her wish, finally, to have sex out of her life.
Soooo.. to the board.. did I totally screw this up, yet again? Should I have held my gound even if it meant not sleeping for a night? How could I have gotten out of the situation? I don't have that "lack of self respect" feeling like I did last week.. more like "I had no other choice, so I did what I had to do" type of feeling. But it's still not right. Not even close! And again, what do I do differently next week? If just lightly making a joke to make her laugh has THIS kind of result.. I could be in a lot of trouble.. I joke around all the time. And I am suppose to be talking and communicating MORE to her, not focusing on keeping my mouth shut.
And now I am selfish for NOT having sex. I sooooooo don't get this...
I'm not going to beat your up for thinking that you could successfully joke about this matter with her...that is so "me", but, for future reference, you can't successfully joke about this matter with her. And attempt to do so now that you have this knowledge, is (I hate this...) passive aggressive. Nuff said.
So, what should you have done when she demanded sex? Heather...you want to take this one? I think the only thing you could have done is exited the house. Get in your car and spend the night in a hotel, or in the car, or wherever.
My wife's stubborn, too, and I could see her doing this. That's what I would do.
But you didn't do that. And yeah, I can see that she might be pulling the smoking teen trick on you.
Man...this sucks. Go get some counseling for yourself...you need to just be able to sit in a room for an hour with someone and spill all this.
You couldn't win that one. I am impressed that you actually managed to have sex in that environment. Wow. I wonder if you could have dissuaded her by just kissing her and saying that you love her and would love to ML on another day in another situation???
You should not have given in to her and had sex. Your wife IS making sex a miserable experience so that it will eventually end. You need to specifically say that sex is scheduled for thursday nights, and that both partners are to show up with positive attitudes towards a physical evening or don't show up at all.
Your wife is reaching her cruciable. She feels bad to have sex, but she feels rotten for being such a failure in her marriage to you. She wants to transfer that back on you, DON'T GET SUCKED IN ON THIS. Sure she feels bad, SHE HAS TO FACE IT, DEAL WITH IT, OR GET OUT. YOU can not help her with this. You are also in no way responsible for all the feelings she expressed (she was trying to suck you in to HER issues).
So schedule the sex, but if she comes in with a bad attitude, just tell her that you will try again in another week to allow her to change her attitude. It will be hell for a while, so you may have to sleep elsewhere. But DO NOT LET HER TRANSFER HER PROBLEMS BACK ONTO YOU!!!
The only thing I can say you screwed up in was not taking the opportunity she handed you to talk about things. If she was going on and on about feeling like a failure, then that is when you should have pushed into the subject a little. After all, that is really where your problems lie, not with the sex.
... either allow me to have sex, or spend the whole night feeling like a total failure as a wife and a person. And "what kind of person would I be to sentence my wife to a night of torture and feeling like crap".
You don’t seem to buy into her line of self deprecation, so did you say anything to her about this? Even if you didn’t give her some direct support, did you at least deny or negate her own negative comments?
She said if I continued to ride this new high ground and stay away from her then I got to have a good nights sleep, feeling like I "did the right thing" meanwhile leaving her to stew all night feeling miserable and like some sub human being and that would be totally selfish of me to do to her.
I think she is seeing this whole thing as just a new form of control over her. Unfortunately, she seems to see everything as a way to put her down.
She wasn't going to allow this to happen regardless of what she had to do. I said "I'll just go to the couch.."
But then again, maybe you are using this as a sort of power play. You know she is uncomfortable, embarrassed, angry and yet you walk off and leave her. I am not saying you should have had sex, but your going to the couch seems to have given you some sense of satisfaction (and maybe a little vengeance?) I think you need to keep sight of the main purpose for setting boundaries. It is to hold true to your values, yes, but you also want the other person to change in some way. The person may not be able to change in a way you want, so you need to be open to how they might change.
she said "I will just follow behind then, because once again... I WILL NOT GO TO SLEEP TONIGHT UNTIL YOU DO THIS.. AND NEITHER WILL YOU!"
I see an aspect of her wanting to change, but in her own way. You left the room and shut her down. Her way might require a long, more convoluted path than you or I would take, but if she gets there, then so be it. She cannot flip a switch and suddenly become receptive on Thursday nights, much less become happy about being receptive. She is bending to your will right now and it is taking all she can to just do this much. She does not like it, but that is her problem.
BUT, on the other hand, you don’t HAVE to leave her to stew in her own discomfort and face her two choice dilemma alone. You can open your blinders and see that maybe her way is to vent some of her anger and frustration, and somehow get back a feeling of empowerment by making YOU feel guilty about something for once. You took this opportunity away from her and that is why I think she got pissed.
She has a lot of repressed anger and resentment. A lot of that is not your doing, but some of it is. You need to understand this. Read over my latest thread on compassion. I think you and Hairdog can really use this “shift” (as Hairdog calls it) to see your wife’s pain and detach your reactivity. It is damn hard, I know. I am trying too. But until our wives can confront their issues head-on, take full ownership and start to work on themselves, this is something we just have to do.
I know it's hard to *really* focus on yourself and attack your own shortcomings when your love tank is completely empty, but you've got to start.
The "joke" was not a joke and you know it. More importantly, so does she. It is indeed passive aggressive. Every time you use this style of interacting, you place yourself a little bit farther away from true intimacy.
As far as how your wife acted.......well, I think all it would take to defuse that situation is for you to really GET REAL with her. Look her calmly in the eye and say "I will not live like this." or "I will not ML under these circumstances and that's final." IOW, be the strong man that she is so obviously craving. Get harsh with her. Acquire a steely Don't-fcuk-with-me tone to your voice.
Finally, stop expecting her to intimately give of her body to you when you won't intimately give of your heart (true feelings) to her.
