Honey, I'm all for your M working - as a better, more wonderful R than you ever knew before. I want that for ALL of us, I WANT to be proven wrong about your sitch and your W.
Forgive my previous semi-abrasive posts, I'm just geting out my rage re: the perceived injustices committed on my fellow LBS's here. You especially, b/c I like you (and your monster posts!) so much and just know you can make a great & powerful M if she'll put more than a toe into the water.
I look forward to your W impressing the hell out of me in the future! So far, so good!
Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Is 43:18-19
If it seems slow in coming, wait. It's on its way. It will come right on time. Hab 2:3
GH, I'd kill to have my wife want to shave anything on my body (within reason, of course!).Hey, she wants a ring to show she's committed then I say go with it (just keep the reciept!) Now you can't afford to have her call the babysitter at all, that problem is solved too (kidding, of course)!!!Things are looking up. Take care GH. My fingers are crossed for you.
Thanks all, and to those who say expect the lows/worst, I assure you I do, and please, don't take this the wrong way (as if I think all this is my fault or something) but I mainly expect the worst from me and my overactive imagination. I also know my W may very well flip on me again but WTH, I had to DO something.
We had an interesting little exchange last night, one I THINK I finally played right. At about 11:30pm her phone rang (wow, she actually had it in the house charging all night... hasn't done THAT in a long time). Oh, and you are going to mini-slap me in a sec...be warned...and I think you can see it coming.
Of course it got my attention. Immediately W walked over (we were both talking in the kitchen right next to the phone) and looked at the caller id then hung up. She said it was GF that we went out with in the day most likely trying to confirm plans for tomorrow (today). Right as she was saying that it rang again and "she" left a message. W listened to it and said "true to form, she wanted to know if we were going or not tomorrow and said she expected to hear back from me but didn't."
Now, I know what you all are thinking...me too. I'm sure my face registered my suspicion. I didn't say anything and tried to play along with the "GF" story. W went into a lot of extra drama about how this GF calls all the time, etc. It SEEMED like someone telling too much detail because it's a lie. Damn, I hate thinking that all the time. SO, she left the room and guess what? I looked. For ONCE, snooping didn't hurt me. I didn't see his name OR her name. I didn't actually snoop the right place and once I figured that out, I decided that it was wrong to look and stopped. Slap away though because the intent was there.
I was VERY close to just asking/confronting her. I did not.
I saw W one more time and went up to bed. I had said goodnight earlier so this wasn't a big deal.
When I was getting ready for bed I was still seriously thinking about saying something but I decided that even if it was him, I had NO idea why he was calling and if W had brought her phone in, she must not have been expecting him to call, or she didn't seem to worry about what I thought if he did. In any event, I decided that I would just go to bed and try to put it out of my mind.
About 10 minutes later W comes up to the bedroom, stands next to the bed and says...
w: Are you going to get upset now every time my phone rings? M: No, and I'm not upset now either (which by then was pretty much true) and even so, I don't really have a chance to get upset or not because your phone has been living in your car. W: Well, why would I need to leave it there now. I don't have any reason to do I? M: No, I guess not. W: Ok, I just don't want to go back to that. I don't want to start that again. M: Me neither.
It was almost like she knew what I was thinking but for the first time SHE didn't just ignore it. If you remember the other day I asked her to just say something if she thought I was going to think badly about something, i.e. her phone being off, etc, and MAYBE she actually heard that because this was highly unusual for her. Normally she would have just let it go once I went to bed but instead she chose to try to reassure me.
I am still not convinced it wasn't him but I am a little more convinced that if it was, it wasn't to set up their next date.
When she came to bed, she made an exaggerated effort to curl up close to me . Again, if I didn't know better, it was as if she actually LISTENED to me when I said I felt love from physical proximity. Hmmmm...
Oh, and one more thing... Right before that phone incident, we were talking in the kitchen about her ring and whether she should wear it to the gym and risk it getting scratched. She thought she should and I said with a BIG grin "Hell yes you wear it there... ESPECIALLY to the gym." We both knew why I said that. She smiled.
Thanks again for all your well wishing and caution advising. Both are well received.
Sorry to burst your bubble. Yea, other than the back hair thing I AM perfect in every other way... well, there IS that passive/aggressive, low self-esteem, intimacy fearing stuff but hey, what's a little psychosis between friends?
GH, Sounds like you made it through the phone thing. But, your w seems to lack understanding as to why you may still be a little jumpy. To say "are you going to get angry every time my phone rings" is very confrontative and lacks empathy. Can you tell her what approach would work best for you if she feels the need e.g. I know this has been hard on you but ...." or whatever would be less combatative. She talks about your anger but sets up your reaction (not that you aren't responsible for your reaction but..). She wants immediate and total trust just like that. It's not realistic. Again, actions speak louder than words. She has to prove to you that she means what she says. She's not getting that. Anybody else have any ideas out there? Lastly, you snooped. BIG DEAL. I would be doing the same, right or wrong. Just don't let snooping become your new GAL activity!! All the best.
You know, GH, some "experts" say that it's the WAS's job to reassure the LBS at this point. All previously hidden means of conducting the A should become transparent and available to the LBS to reassure them. This is only food for thought, because I know this thinking isn't really in line with yours, but your W could get a very positive sense of contributing to the M through her reassurance to you.
I agree with WhatIS that your W seems to have a very entitled attitude (not sure if this is just the way you present her to us) that is demonstrated in the way she confronts you about the phone issue. I think this comes down to the underlying issue of the distribution of "power" in the R. I don't think that she has any sense that she will "push you away" and this might be important. I get the sense that she thinks she can do whatever she wants to and the M wont suffer or end. How about putting the impetus on HER to fix it, to give you a plan that you can hold each other accountable to? She's a person, like you are, and yet you treat her like you worship her while she doesn't do the same. Was it OT who said "don't be more in the R than they are"? I think that holds true now.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Yeah, have to agree on the entitlement/transparency issue here. Jeez, especially b/c you just bought her a ROCK dude.
Anyway, my H is willing to give me his cell records and I have passwords to all his email accounts to spot check as necessary. He takes me anywhere he'll have to meet with a female client, or makes sure he's never alone with one.
HE initiated these things in order to regain my trust and show that I have nothing to worry about - that's what he told me when he did it. Your W doesn't seem to get that, as if you should just sweep it under the rug and trust her ... just because?
I'm trying to like her, GH, but she's still p*ssing me off in her attitude that you should just suck it up? WTH? If the roles were reversed here, how do you think she would handle this?
Happy Monday! Glad to see you posting. Even when things are better, they still come up and bite you in the hind end (see today's post on my thread). You are already stronger than I was at the same point in my R, so I know you'll emerge triumphant eventually.
Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Is 43:18-19
If it seems slow in coming, wait. It's on its way. It will come right on time. Hab 2:3
Quote: But, your w seems to lack understanding as to why you may still be a little jumpy.
Well, actually, her taking the initiative, even though it SEEMED a little aggressive the way I posted it, to talk to me about the phone thing was a LOT closer to empathy than she's had in the past. It's a step. She was clearly concerned that I was upset but still stuck in that place where she's going to blame ME for things that get me upset. I think she is realizing that she needs to change that approach.
Quote: She wants immediate and total trust just like that. It's not realistic. Again, actions speak louder than words. She has to prove to you that she means what she says. She's not getting that.
I think she WANTS this but I don't think she expects it. The problem is that my not giving this to her seems to make her angry and that anger does NOT help us right now. I think she is STARTING to get that. I do wish it would come sooner or later.
I don't know if I posted this, but in that R talk a few days ago I did tell her that she seems to think I don't have the right to get upset or not trust her. She said she didn't think that but just wished I would not bottle it up so much (um...somewhere there's a black pot quote that comes to mind).
Quote: You know, GH, some "experts" say that it's the WAS's job to reassure the LBS at this point. All previously hidden means of conducting the A should become transparent and available to the LBS to reassure them. This is only food for thought, because I know this thinking isn't really in line with yours, but your W could get a very positive sense of contributing to the M through her reassurance to you.
Actually I think this is one place where almost ALL the experts agree and I am trying to get this across to my W. I do think it's one of those things that she mainly has to discover on her own because If I do too much more "telling" her to do it, she will likely rebel. She is still in that stage where I think she needs to feel like she's freely choosing to do these things, not being coerced by me. I have a bad habit of "fathering" her anyway and helping her feel like I am controlling her. I have stopped most of that behavior but she is still looking for it.
Quote: I agree with WhatIS that your W seems to have a very entitled attitude (not sure if this is just the way you present her to us) that is demonstrated in the way she confronts you about the phone issue. I think this comes down to the underlying issue of the distribution of "power" in the R. I don't think that she has any sense that she will "push you away" and this might be important. I get the sense that she thinks she can do whatever she wants to and the M wont suffer or end. How about putting the impetus on HER to fix it, to give you a plan that you can hold each other accountable to? She's a person, like you are, and yet you treat her like you worship her while she doesn't do the same. Was it OT who said "don't be more in the R than they are"? I think that holds true now.
Actually, and I understand we're talking a few days here so... she has NOT been acting that way the past few days, really since the R talk. She seems to "get" that she actually has to DO something, that she can't just come back and things will go back to normal.
She DOES have a sense of entitlement and I think that's from how she was raised, but when it comes to us, there is a HUGE shift in the dynamic of the R that needs to happen whereby she starts DOING for me instead of, as you say, me worshiping her without any reciprocation. I don't really do that, but for our purposes here, I am ok with that description, and in that regard, she has been initiating more hugs and closeness in bed. I still have remained pretty "pulled back" in that respect.
I also TOLD her that those things needed to change in the R talk and my actions have remained pretty consistent, backing up the fact that I said I didn't want to continue the "old" one-way physical R we have had really since the beginning of our M.
Like I said, this dynamic is a HUGE part of our R and will not change over night. My W is clearly a taker and I am a giver. We are BOTH comfortable with that but since all this happened, I have realized that I want/need more from her and have told her just what I wanted. Now I have to hope these recent little signs that she's listening are leading to "more" from her.
BTW, my W DOES do a lot for me in MANY other areas but it's really in the physical affection department that she lacks. The picture I paint of her, like I would think most of the pictures painted of WAS's, is certainly skewed and lacking MUCH of the wonderful, positive things that made me fall in love with her, and still love her to this day. I wish that were not true, but as they say, if it bleeds, it leads. The warm fuzzy stories usually suffer for the ones that need immediate attention, i.e. the bad ones.
