Whatis, you crack me up, and I'm not trying to be disrepectful. You tell it like it is - hence, your name. I like your advice. Keep it coming...
Gh, I know you said you are listening to stuff on anger management, but you my friend, sound very angry, as you should be BUT you need to divert it. Not stuff it down, but it is not coming off in a good way and if I can sense it your W can too. Just my thoughts - please don't kill the messenger.
I understand, you are SO frustrated. As far as you are concerned this Sh*t has gone on long enough. You want to beat your W over the head and yell at her, "do you not get it, THIS is life!!!! Yes, sometimes it sucks!!! Who is to say that with anyone else it would be different? It wouldn't. There are always going to be bills, not enough money, diapers, bills, not enough money, laundry, long grass, pets, bills, not enough money........EVERYONE has these same problems!!!! If you think leaving me and getting hooked up will end these problems you are sadly mistaken!!!!"
Sorry for the rant. I luv ya GH, and as a woman I would be proud to call you my husband. Your wife doesn't know what a good man she has. I can't say that too many men would walk in your shoes. Hopefully, she will stop being so self absorbed and selfish and realize what a wonderful H and family she has. I'm sorry to say this, but she doesn't deserve you. I truely hope that by the end of this year she is kissing your feet, literally. She should be thanking the stars above that you didn't leave her high and dry, like most men would. This shows me what a wonderful and forgiving person AND father you are.
If you are not shooting a wedding this weekend, spend time with your boys. They are your world!!! They are young and innocent and just love their mommy and daddy. They are sponges. Have Fun and forget about all of your troubles. Take care, Mamabear..aka Ms. Grin & Bear It...aka...Strongbear
I'm in no position to give advice, so I won't try. I just wanted to say I'm thinking about you and watching your sitch in detail, now. You are more grounded than many of us here hope to ever be. Just remember, the road ahead may never end, but it does get smoother... eventually.
Thanks Mamabear, it's good to know I'm helping. GH has been a good friend to many in this forum and I thought it time to help out. I'm glad my style is being appreciated! My w says I am sometimes too blunt with her and I pledged to try and change that in our interactions. But that means she has to let me know when I do it as sometimes I'm going to miss it. That means working together, something she has difficulty fathoming. Anyway, I'm glad my style is creating a light touch as it is intended to do. We all have our pitfalls and GH you are indeed very angry, rightfully so. How is it that spouses don't seem to get that infidelity is the most hurtful thing one can do to your spouse. It's not like she hid the remote and told you she didn't know where it is, she betrayed you!!!Of course, the remote would be serious (to us guys) but betrayal, WOW! I guess they just have to handle the guilt in some way and denial has worked for human beings for ages so why not here. Trust me, they don't want to hear about your hurt, they know it but can't face it, so they deny it. It's truly maddening but what is is.
Take this FWIW but the lightbulbs in my head went off like a Christmas tree when I read about that exchange you had in the car with your W.
You two might as well have been me and my husband when he moved back in but I was still wrapped up in OM. I was trying to shake the feelings I still had for him at the time, trying not call him...etc....and YOU and YOUR W had a conversation in the car that MIRRORED damn near word for word what used to go on between me and my husband. In fact, to be completely honest, YOUR words were the ONLY words that were different. Truth is GH, MOST of the things she is saying to you now are VERBATIM the same BS I used to say. VER-FREAKIN-BATIM, I SWEAR.
Now HERE is what will change that...
Stop asking questions. Do not call her cell phone when she is out alone. In fact, if it is not about the kids or something else VERY IMPORTANT DO NOT CALL HER CELL PHONE AT ALL. Don't suggest a date. Don't ask her what she's thinking, feeling etc... Don't ask about the future. DAMN SURE don't buy a ring for her based on the fact she SAYS that means things will be okay.
EXTRICATE yourself from her emotionally EXCEPT on the most basic level.
You know I do not have a habit of posting to you often. I'm telling you your wife acts more like I used to act with every post I read.
I know you're going to keep doing your own thing but I am asking you to carefully consider the things I am suggesting here.
You're never going to make any headway until she no longer thinks you're a sure thing.
Hi Amy, I think your input is pretty valuable here! The gist is that GH should back off and give his w space. She is grieving a loss and it may be too soon to expect anything else from her. Am I on track here? What is the difference between giving space and the Last Resort tactic? Some of what you've advised I find kind of anxiety provoking, but maybe that's cuz it hits home for my sitch, I don't know. Obviously GH's w is staying, why we don't really know (or at least I don't, maybe I missed something). Is it cozy and comfortable? Is it the kids? Is it money? GH wants it to be for love (of course!) but he can't seem to get a handle on it.That creates ANGER. Maybe she doesn't even know. So I think you are right, give her space but how much is up to GH and what he can deal with and for how long. When I started giving my w "space" e.g. not checking in with her, waiting for her to come to me etc she decided to start an affair (maybe she would have anyway???). Could too much space start GH's wife thinking he doesn't care anymore and drive her back to the OM? I'm kind of clueless on this one. What do others think. I'm leaning towards the middle ground. Space, yes, but how much? From yours and other posts it sounds like others think he should go all the way (sorry GH, I'm not talking bedroom here!)Oh, this does tax the old brain, doesn't it.
Sorry to those rooting for not buying the ring. She was REALLY insistent on it. She wanted to shop this weekend and when we saw one that she really liked she wanted to get it then. I suggested we wait. We did...til the next day.
Anyway, I did manage to talk a bit to her about how this seemed really strange and maybe a little premature considering what we have been going through. She said she didn't agree. She said this was her way of saying she made a decision and wanted me to know.
So, we got it. It's really something that I have wanted to do ever since we got married because when I proposed I had VERY little and the ring I gave her reflected that. I always told her I wanted to do better by her when the time came...well, that's part of the problem, the time came...and came...and came and we spent money, I spent money, on a lot of other things besides her ring. She's noticed and over the years, made little mentions of it.
Anyway, long story short, I had little problem doing it and she seemed to understand what it means to me. Actually, as I said, one of the main reasons she wanted to do it now was to make the point that things were going in the right direction. In the store I did ask her if she was ready for this. She thought I meant the money. I said "No, what this means." She said "Oh, now there are all kinds of expectations?" I said "Nope, just that WE are making this work, which you say WE are." She smiled and said "That was happening with or without a ring."
Do I 100% know that things are "good" now? Nope, but as I said last week, I can't dwell. I HAVE to tighten up my act in terms of detachment and let thing thing play out.
As for "things" playing out, well, I guess it's better there too. I don't really want to go into detail... well, damn, I guess I have to. Sorry to be graphic, but I THINK it's a good thing that W is now opening up to me about things she likes/is turned on by. Friday night she was trimming her hair (she does this between cuts) and I walked by. I asked her to trim mine. She has never done this before. She said yes after I convinced her she couldn't screw it up. She did the trim and then I got my shaver to do my neck (she said it was bad). As she was doing that, she asked me about my back. I said "what about it?" She said "When am I going to do that?" I really didn't know what to say. I said, well, now if you want. She laughed, protested for a bit but then did it, making a LOT of comments about how back hair is gross and how sexy she thinks it is for a man to take care of that. WOW. She never mentioned this before. She said she wanted to but didn't want to offend me.
Now, I probably COULD have taken this the wrong way. Remember, OM is a body building (i.e. shaved all over) guy and here was my W saying how sexy that was but you know what, WTH, when she mentioned it, I could see how it might not be something that someone would want to feel so why not. IT was actually one of the most intimate moments we have had in a LONG time. Sad, but true.
We had a LOT of fun that night. Nothing sexual but the groundwork is being laid, no pun intended.
Oh, one last thing. When we came out of the jewelry store with the ring I asked her if she was happy with her anniversary present. She said "of course but now what do I get you?" I put on my best grin and said "Well, I know one thing and it wouldn't cost us anything." She feigned anger and said "I WON'T be doing that JUST because you gave me a ring. There WILL be a time for that, I assure you." then flashed a grin of her own.
So, again, I apoligize if I went in a direction that you all think was wrong. I agree that it IS a risk for sure. I actually agreed with Amy and others that maybe the time was now to pull back but then she started suggesting the ring and seeming ready to dive in head first. Maybe it's her way to try to force herself to do something she's struggling with but WTH, it FELT right to me and I trusted my gut. It's all I can do these days. If my gut was wrong, then you will probably hear about it sooner than later.
WOW, GH! You go with it. She is making it very clear that she wants your marriage. Does she bounce around like this often? It's like a total turnaround??? In a short time frame. I'd be confused, thrilled and scared too. I'm thinking your little blowout with her maybe had some effect (I've had some experience in that myself recently!) don't worry about disappointing the peanut gallery here. We're thrilled for you. If you need us, we're here. P.S. Just don't push for too much too soon. She's still got some stuff to sort out no matter how postitive she presents right now. Take what you can get and build on it. 'nuff said!!
GH, don't feel bad about what happened - I probably would have done the same damn thing in your shoes. (After our little talk this weekend, I'm all of a sudden more attracted to my W again. I actually do start to wish for intimate moments such as you described - whereas a few days ago I would have shuddered at the thought.)
My take on what happened with the ring from a philosophical perspective is that to her it represents a buffer of sorts, or some "marriage super glue." I KNOW she is not ready for things to go to the next level in terms of intimacy, but I also think she knows she wants this to work. Our little blow up may have made her understand that I am NOT getting the impression, no matter how much she SAID things were "ok" and going in the right direction, that we were on the road to reconciliation. Since I told her that basically I needed physical intimacy to feel like things were moving forward and that without it, I was questioning whether I should stay, etc, she maybe figured that this would give me the reassurance I needed so she could buy more time on the other fronts.
IF, and I have NO idea if this theory is right, she did do it for this reason, then it worked. There are a TON of other things we could have used, that we wanted to spend that money on but she really wanted to do this...and now.
As for her flip-flopping like this, well, to be honest, she hasn't really ever SAID she didn't want us to work out. In fact, she has been consistent (and it made me CRAZY to hear this at times) that she didn't ever see us NOT being together.
So this really isn't a total flip, just an EXTREME step on her part to try to prove a point. It worked...for now.
Wow, she is telling you some of the things that she finds attractive and is willing to let you fill that role (back hair). You did an excellent job!
I also think that the ring idea is a good idea, especially since that kind of turned into a big deal. You know what, she didn't skip a beat and said that it was already a big deal anyway (your R/sitch).
Good golly man, she is opening up to you and telling you what she wants and not shutting you out. What an ideal sitch. She is starting to tell you her needs and you are handling it like a trooper. Hope she doesn't flip on you, but even the ML assumption she gave you was very positive.
Don't mean to build you up for a fall or anything, but also still try to keep your expectation low. When good things happen it's always easier to rise to the occasion than to go the other way.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
Marcus Aurelius
