Ok, so here I am, all content in my new world, with my new outlook and then...
W called me a few minutes ago (returning a call from me about paying a bill).
W: What's up? M: Just wanted to tell you I paid xxx and that you don't need to pay it. They called me because it's overdue. W: Ok. M: (talked about some car issues because a co-worker just got the same car my W has and I found out a lot of things I didn't know about it) W: You didn't ask about the drama going on here this morning. M: Ok, what's the drama? W: Well, you know that GF was supposed to drop off her kids this morning, right? Well, I knew she was wishy-washy about it last night and sure enough, she's going to take them with her instead. So I decided to call the babysitter and take the morning/early afternoon to myself to do some shopping and look for a ring (more on this later). I need a break after this week, and the weekend is going to be crazy so... M: Ok. That's great. I know you've been tired. The only problem I have is that for this is the second time you've gotten a babysitter for "you" to do your daily stuff when I have gone so far as to BEG you to get her for "us". I hate feeling that way, and as I said the other night, I am done begging in any way. I know things are not in a way where we would probably go "out" but I would damn sure like to at least see a movie or something. I need a break too. W: Why do you get so angry every time I say I want to do something for myself. I just wanted to take some time off this morning and you get all pissy. M: If you notice, I am not angry, I am just disappointed that you don't recognize that we BOTH need a break and it would be nice to get a babysitter, something I have lobbied for YEARS for, for US. W: Ok, I will tell her I want her to babysit sometime. M: Ok. W: I still don't see why you react this way. M: Well, to be honest, after our talk the other day, I guess I have my doubts about things you do for "you". I should NOT react this way though, you're right. W: Didn't you hear me say I wanted to look for a new ring? Isn't that what you want? Isn't that progress? M: Well, yes, I heard that but you know what, I asked you a direct question about that because I wanted to know what it meant, at a time that was "good" in terms of not being late, etc, and you didn't answer the question. I asked you again the next day and you, once again, didn't answer the question. I suppose this idea of telling me you're shopping for a ring is your way of answering the question. My problem is that I feel like that is a much deeper issue than can be addressed by subtle messages. Here's the thing. I want you to have a new ring. Yes, that's what I want, but I sure as hell don't want it to be $xxxx wasted because it becomes obsolete in a month, or a year. W: I thought we were past that. M: How do you figure that? After the other night, we are right back in the middle of it. W: No, we are not. M: Ok, well in that case, please look for a ring and let me know what you find. We can talk about the rest later. And for the record, you have been AMAZING with the boys the past few weeks. You have really done your best to make sure their summer was great and I DO think you deserve a break. You have worked your a$$ off and I appreciate that, but more than me, the boys do. I just wanted you to know that. When I get upset at the baby-sitting thing, it's just because of what it represents to me, us not going out, and the possibility of something else going on, neither of which are really something I want to dwell on right now. W: Thank you for saying that. It's all I wanted to hear. I feel like I did all this and nobody noticed. M: I noticed but with all that's been going on, I failed to let you know I did. W: Ok. I'll call you if I find anything.
Um... Reading that back, I see that it looks like she said we're not in that "quasi-affair" place and I just accepted that. There was more said, I'm sure, but the gist of it was that she said she WAS committed to making this work between us and the ring was her main way of showing that. I have my suspicions but you know what, my W is NOT the kind of woman who really loves jewelry so she would not buy a ring just to have it. If she gets one, she'll wear it and what that means, I don't really know.
All this is nice and really, actually makes me smile a bit, but as I said, it changes nothing. I still don't know what tomorrow will bring and she has a LONG way to go towards earning my trust again. Right now, I clearly do not trust her but you know what, oh well.
Good for you GH. Instead of holding back your feelings and stewing about them all day you came out and were direct. Excellent!! I also like the fact that you changed the convo around by complimenting her. Fantastic!! I think THIS is key. I think we were lacking in the compliment and admiration department, we took our S's for granted and they started to feel tired and used. I'm sure OP complimented them alot and stroked their ego's like crazy (of course this was for their own selfish reasons but our S's were blind to that fact).
Your wife doesn't seem to like having deep emotional talks (I could be wrong) so the ring represents what she is feeling without saying it. My H has been wearing his ring for the last month. Of course I still wonder if he leaves it in the ashtray of his car all day and puts it back on when he pulls in the driveway (saw that in a movie once) but that is because of my own insecurities.
You seem to be doing really well. You have really transformed overnight. Go back and read your posts and you can see that you no longer come across as desparate and needy, you are now strong and confident!!
Mama, I don't FEEL desperate and needy anymore. I feel like if my W gets something from me, it's because I am giving it to her NOT because I allow her to take it. It's a really powerful distinction. I also have to admit that I have been reading (er...listening) again.
The two books (actually one is not really a book) I am currently listening to are "Controlling Your Anger Before it Controls You" and "The Pema Chodron Audio Collection". The first should be obvious, and it's WAY overdue, and the second, a collection of speeches by a Buddist nun.
I have to say, the Buddhist stuff was on a whim. I actually like eastern philosophy quite a bit so it really isn't a stretch. From what I have heard so far, about an hour, it is REALLY good stuff. It's all about meditation and not making such a big deal out of things. It's a really good compainion to the other, more straight forward anger managment book.
I think the message that both books send, about how our BELIEFS about things are often the direct path towards anger and negative feelings could not have come at a better time. BOTH books have really helped me understand how my beliefs in the INTENT or the moral RIGHTNESS of certain things is clouding my ability to NOT react to them. It's kinda the missing key to detachment for me.
Anyway, mama, I am better now, and I really believe that because I was better BEFORE things were anything but uncertain and really, worse than the past couple months. I feel that since I STARTED being "ok" when things were down, now that they MAY be starting up again, it's not only because of that I am feeling better. That's important to me.
Thanks for the words of encouragment. I hope I can keep it up.
GH Chill buddy! Maybe I'm wrong but you really put the boots to your wife. Why can't you call and arrange a baby sitter? Why is it up to her to take care of your need to go out? You say "Would you like to see a movie Saturday night? Shall I call X or shall you?" In truth, I am in awe of your honesty here but a little concerned about you coming on too strong and crushing what seems to be progressing. Should you trust her? Hell no! The ring thing still seems to be a bit out there. I would have an issue with her buying a ring just after telling you what she just did. It seems like she wants to put that away and forget it was even said. I think too we both must realize that our wives are infatuated with an idea of love and to give that fantasy up (or that is how they see it) is a real loss. It's painful. It's hard for us to see that sometimes cuz we've been so bashed ourselves. I too loved your compliments and her response was great. You two really communicated! You were also man enough to admit you reacted strongly, that's honesty too. Way to go. Lastly, I also love Pema Chodran's books, she has an interesting message. Hang tough (but not too tough, OK).
Thanks. The truth is that this babysitter is someone my W knows and I have tried to get her number before. It's not really been an issue except that, like I have said in the past, I have tried, even so far to arrange for a sitter, only to have W squash the plans. She is a real control freak when it comes to things about the kids. She has to know the person, etc. Anyway, I did tell her I would arrange it and as usual, she said "no" she would do it but then again...when. This is an ongoing struggle. It won't be solved overnight.
Well, whatisis, you were right, BTW, honesty is one thing, being an a-hole is another... I crossed that line I think. Aw, who knows.
Anyway, what I am talking about is that when I got home this afternoon, we all piled in the car to go to the mall. I decided that I would just say something to W about this morning. I truly didn't think it would go badly...oops.
I asked her why her phone had been on vibrate (she said that's why she didn't get my calls) since the kids were with a sitter and she is usually worried silly about stuff like that...
W: Oh, here it comes. I was waiting for this. Go ahead. M: Waiting for what? W: For you to act like this. You do it everytime I go out of the house it seems. M: No I don't, but since I am "doing it" let me just be very straight forward (mind you, kids were in the car so we had to be a bit cryptic). Did you meet anyone today? W: No. I went shopping. Why do you always do this? M: Do what? Get a feeling and then ask you about it? I don't usually do that. I usually get all passive/agressive, hold it in and then... W: No, you're doing that now. You probably stewed on this all day and now here comes the explosion. M: Cut me some slack. I can't help it if I feel this way SOMETIMES and it's NOT all the time. What happened this morning felt wrong to me and then not being able to get ahold of you all day make that feeling grow. I just wanted to ask you directly about it. That's what you want right? Now I ask you and you still get pissed. I can't win. Actually, I don't really care about winning, I just don't want to be angry so I chose to just speak my mind. Sorry if that bothers you. W: It doesn't bother me that you are speaking your mind, it's HOW you do it that bothers me. M: Well, like I said, I tried the direct approach this time. That didn't work very well. You don't really like to talk about these things. W: I do, but I knew it would be this way. M: Ok, if you knew it was going to be this way, that I was feeling funny about this morning, why didn't you just reassure me? Is that so hard? W: I'm not like that. I can't talk that much. It gives me a headache. M: Well, ok, I get that. So you expect me to observe your actions for evidence that things are different. I've tried that too and from what I can see, you still won't touch me, you still don't like to be touched by me so what's changed? That, plus the converstaion we had the other night paints a pretty clear picture for me. W: Do you think I would be talking about buying a ring if I had not resolved that for myself? M: Like I said, why not just SAY that, or DO something to show me your feelings have changed?
(I reached over and touched her leg)
M: THAT is how I know you care. THAT is how I give and recieve love and without that, I am really left to try to mind read, something I decided I don't want to do anymore. W: I give up. It's always going to be like this. M: No, it's not, but you thinking I have no right to my feelings is not helping. Anyway, I decided the other day to do things differently and I guess I still have some work to do. W: Why can't you just drop it? M: Because I don't think you understand, but you know what? You're right, I will drop it.
That was about it. I only say I was an a-hole because I did beat it into the ground. As OT would say, I interrogated her and that was the LAST thing I wanted to do. It was a backslide for sure. I should have kept my mouth shut, at least THIS time, but you know what? I don't regret it.
The rest of the night has been great. I just need to work on my delivery.
GH, I like the way you're headed ... no more tiptoeing, more honesty. If she wants to repair the M (and it is up to her to do her share), then she needs to recognize that she needs to be accountable to you. She needs to realize that SHE is going to have to put forth some effort to regain your trust.
I don't really see that she is doing anything to work on the M. Buying a new ring for herself does not constitute working on herself or working on the M. If you let her off the hook without doing anything, GH, then you're going to end up with the same kind of relationship you had before, and I know you don't want that.
The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth." (Psalm 145:18)
Hi GH, Pls don't think I was meaning you to be an A-hole, as you put it. I'm thinking your wife is very good at setting little traps for you and you are walking right into them. Would it be reasonable for you to ignore these things e.g. forgetting to call babysitter, the phone thing and accept that for now they ain't gonna happen. Carry on with your life and don't even worry about what she says cuz that's meaningless crap! When her actions change that will be meaningful. She's somehow got you engaged in allowing her actions to dictate your feelings and then she can say "oh, here we go again" and you end up feeling the A-hole. Don't go there! Maybe just comment like "i really would have appreciated if your phone had been on today" and leave it there. Don't tell her how angry, disappointed, frustrated etc you are. I guess it's the detachment thing again. I think detachment will be the key for you. Once she gets the anger thing going you are toast, my friend! Again, it may not be conscious on her part but don't let her get to the "see we just shouldn't be together, you will never change". Play the game, for now. She may actually want to see that you have the anger thing under control. She also wants to escape her guilt and will use your anger as a means to avoid it. Anyway, I've babbled enough. I hope it is of some help. My thoughts again are just thoughts, you are the expert on your life. Try to lay back and laugh a bit at her antics. Again, I started writing down my wife's bizarre statements and can actually laugh at them despite their pain in some ways e.g. "You only send me flowers because you know I like it" Good one, right! Take care
Thanks What & RB. I actually am not really sweating earlier. I KNOW my W is very good at what she does and while I agree she may not be doing in on purpose, she IS setting the trap and I am falling for it. If anything, I am mad that I let that happen. Oh well, live and learn.
GH, A quick example from my pathetic little existence! Over the past 1.5 years my w has shown little interest in anything I do. Any achievement is met with a shrug or complete disinterest. I had mentioned that it would be nice if she could at least show some interest in my life regardless of her love or lack of love for me. That fell on deaf ears. A few weeks after our blowout I had gone to a ballgame (cuz I wanted to and she agreed to watch the kids) and when I came home I was met with "How was the game, who played, what was the score, where did you sit etc." I thought "where the hell is my wife?!" My point being that previously it would be very easy to dwell on what she was not giving me and every time she didn't ask I could get all worked up, but I didn't. I had to be my own fan club. Was this a turning point? Who knows, but if not I will live on. Certainly it felt damn good for a long while after that. Maybe one day, if you avoid those little anger traps, your w will suddenly have called the babysitter. Then you will know something is working. Lastly, if she isn't physically intimate with you continue db'ing and try different things, see if anything lights her fire. I noticed in your previous post she said something like "You haven't asked about what's going on here". Do you inquire? Ask her about her day etc. Maybe just a small thing like that might be the turning point. Again, she can buy a ring but it don't mean nuthin till there's some action. Women sometimes don't get that sex equals love to guys in a relationship.It's how we gauge that we are still OK. If you do me then you love me. We men sometimes forget that to women that ain't the case. She'll touch you when she's ready GH, don't push that one. Anyway, we all blow it sometimes, big deal, but as long as she's still there then there is something she wants and you are a part of that something. Take it slow and take in a few ballgames!!! All the best.
