Oldtimer, I'm so glad you rode in on the white horse (with baby in tow - congratulations!!) to dispense the advice we all hope GH will finally take. Thank you!
GH we all care about you like crazy and want so much more for a man like you than the sh!t you are eating willingly, with a spoon. I have a mountain of faith in you, just want you to have it as well.
Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Is 43:18-19
If it seems slow in coming, wait. It's on its way. It will come right on time. Hab 2:3
Hi GH I just want to say that any advice you recieve on this board is but the opinion of each individual. You have to do what you feel best for your situation because you have to live with the result, noone else here does! I began putting limits on my w, for example, she wanted us to go on a extended vacation to visit her family and I said I would not go. She was welcome to go with the kids but I did not feel right about playing the happy hubby for her family. I also made it clear that my plans e.g. classes etc. were important for me and I would not be missing them to fit her plans any longer. I also told her that from now on when she pisses me off, I'm telling her. No longer was I going to sit on things because she seemed so stressed etc. I now tell her in a constructive and polite manner and, yes, it drives her nuts but too bad! Please remember GH that you also have your children to consider and anything you choose to do effects them as well. It's easy to say walk away and let her miss you but she isn't the only one who would suffer. I'm in that boat too and my kids say that I am their hero because I don't give up (they know mom and dad are having problems and I try to quell their anxieties which I do, of course, alone)that means the world to me. I know myself there is a whole bandwagon out there telling me to get the hell out, you've done enough etc. but I must do what I believe right, just as you must. Take us all with a grain of salt!
I am not here to respond to advice (not that I don't appreciate it...thank you all!!!), merely to offer OT my heartfelt congratulations on her new baby. I am SO glad to hear all is well and that you so much for taking time out from what I KNOW is a busy time to post to me.
I will respond in due time. Meanwhile, take care of you and don't worry about me. I will be fine. I am taking things one step at a time and feel 100% comfortable with where things stand. Where that is...well, who knows, and who cares. I am all about me right now. I have been trying WAY too f--king hard the last few months and it's time for some R RnR for me. Gotta do it for me sanity.
GH, WHERE are you? I am worried that you will make an impulsive decision....well, not really... I do believe that you have your sh^t together.
You are not the only one going thru this buddy. You want to either leave or tell her to get the hell out. But, (i know, again with the buts) there is more to this sitch than the two of you. You have your kids to consider, housing, finances, the fact that you have a job and she doesn't, etc. etc. etc.
Are you willing to give this all up? Change your entire lifestyle because you are mad and hurt. You must do a pros and cons list, as I have done many times. It is not to say that you turn the other cheek and let her do what she wants but you must also look at her point of view.
In my case, I can see where I screwed up. I was a raving luantic, a total bitch who did nothing but complain 24/7. Well, if I put myself in my H's shoes, I definitely would not want to come home to me either. Do I condone what he did (and to this day I don't know exactly what that is except for the fact that another woman is involved), no way, BUT I do understand it. He HAD to get away from me and my constant complaining. Today I make a point to NOT complain EVER. If something is bothering me I bitch to my girlfriends. My H works hard to provide me with a life that I don't have to work. The last thing he needs to hear is me complaining, about ANYTHING.
Therefore, change the dynamics of your marriage, or lack thereof. I've told you before, you are too accomodating. STOP kissing her ass, IMHO she does not deserve it. It appears to me that she doesn't really have any feelings for you (sorry, don't forget I am in the same boat), therefore only YOU can create your own happiness. Again, enjoy your life with your kids and your friends. In your mind, start thinking of yourself as a single Dad. It may seem mean and harsh to you but do things without her. She needs to feel the consequences of her actions, of a possible life without you. Again, I am not trying to tell you to be mean and cold but stop worrying so much about what she thinks. She obviously doesn't worry too much about you. I know, she doesn't want to hurt you. My H doesn't want to hurt me either - we do have a history together, but he/she are not committed anymore. I think if we would just leave it would make it so much more easier on them. Well F that!!!!
So, start taking care of yourself. Stop feeling sorry for yourself (don't want to get into that victim mode). Pardon my french, F your W. Treat her like a friend (if you have to) and that is it - would you give your friends nightly backrubs? No, then don't give her one either.
You can DO this. I have faith in you. No matter what road you decide to take , you WILL be ok.
I am not feeling sorry for myself and I am nowhere near giving up. I realized, shortly after that convo with my W that I had spent so much time trying to be something/somebody that I had completely forgotten to live my life. No matter how much I denied it, I was 100% consumed by saving my marriage and with that, TONS of unhealthy, codependent things were happening in my R. I was allowing my W to be that way towards me and I was being that way towards her. I was still VERY angry a lot of the time and it was all due to expectations.
Mama, I do believe I can change the dynamic of my marriage but you know what? I want to change the dynamic of my LIFE, of which my marriage is a part.
In a way OT, I already did let go of my marriage before you suggested I do so. I had been holding on WAY too hard. I had been SO caught up in how each and every thing I did affected or didn't affect my W/M. I felt I could afford to be that way again because she SAID we were working on us, even though I saw very little evidence of it.
Mama, I am not around here much these days because I am SO happy to be finally (or once again) on the track to become happy with myself. I am not going anywhere. I still love my W, but somewhere along the way I allowed myself to think that my love somehow entitled me to certain things. Realizing that my W is not at that place with me made me take stock, understand where I went wrong and most of all, accept the fact that she is not now, nor may she ever be able to reciprocate my feelings. IF that is the case, then somewhere down the road, my marriage will be over. I still don't THINK that will be the case, but I am done being afraid of it.
My W is really confused right now. I make no excuses for her anymore. She is choosing her own path and I am choosing mine. For me, that means I am just who I am in our house. I assert myself, I DON'T do things I don't want to do (big change) and I DO things I want to do, when I want to do them.
I am probably happier today that I have been in months because it feels like a huge weight has been lifted. That weight was my trying so hard to do something that some invisible force seemed to be preventing me from doing. I now understand that letting go was my last act of dropping control.
OT, while I am afraid I may disappoint you by not following all your advice, I assure you I heard what you said and am already doing some of it.
Quote: Are you willing to give this all up? Change your entire lifestyle because you are mad and hurt. You must do a pros and cons list, as I have done many times. It is not to say that you turn the other cheek and let her do what she wants but you must also look at her point of view.
Mama, I chose this as the only thing I am quoting because it comes closest to what I feel. There ARE a lot of complicating factors, many of which I have never spoken here of, but that all add up to the fact that IF I make the decision to move out or somehow get her to, there will be tremendous and long lasting effects that I believe will almost surely prevent us from reconciling. I may be wrong, but that's my cross to bear. I am here, and I know what will happen. All that said, I am NOT afraid of it. I can now think of getting an apartment without the chest constricting fear that used to overcome me at the mere thought. I can think about all those consequences and understand that they will simply be reality if things go a certain way...and not get upset at the thought.
In the end Mama, I finally feel like I was 4 months ago, when I believe I understood much more than I did a week ago about what I want and especially what I want from ME, FOR ME. I can't say I am necessarily putting myself in her shoes, but I do have compassion for her. It's sad to see her so unhappy but I have to truly let go of trying to fix her. I started back down that road lately and I had to get off it.
I am not mad at all and the hurt I feel is diminishing. I don't know what my W will do today, tomorrow or the next day but I do know what I will do and that is continue to do this wonderful thing I just figured out which is to accept myself the way I am, with the flaws I know I have and the progress I know I have made. I am a good man who deserves to have a good life, a good wife and a happy family. Maybe that can't happen with this woman, maybe it can but for now, I am content to stop trying to make that happen. That doesn't mean I will stop trying to improve myself because though I accept myself with my flaws, I will still work to be rid of them, and just because I accept my lack of control in my sitch, I will still look for signs that things may improve. I just can't WAIT for that anymore, nor can I expect it. IF she says she's going to commit to us again, I will have to get back to that place slowly this time because I now know how slippery that slope is.
Like I told her the night of the convo. "I have to stop pursuing you. I have to stop holding on. If you want me, you know where I live but I can no longer keep trying so hard to find you."
I guess the best way to summarize what has happened in my sitch, or really, with me, is that the experiment is over for me. This is no longer a game I am playing. I am done with that. I am simply going to try to live my life the best I can, with love and compassion whenever possible and a firm grasp on the reality that is my life right now.
Quote: My W is really confused right now. I make no excuses for her anymore. She is choosing her own path and I am choosing mine.....I now understand that letting go was my last act of dropping control.
.....the experiment is over for me. This is no longer a game I am playing. I am done with that. I am simply going to try to live my life the best I can, with love and compassion whenever possible and a firm grasp on the reality that is my life right now.
Thank you for sharing with us GH. I feel that I've grown personally throught reading your posts.
Letting go is very hard. I hit a very hard bottom last night through the early morning today. I feel like I did the day I came to the conclusion that I had two choices re: my alcoholism. To live or to die. I was dying emotionally and physically. 80lbs overweight with liver problems. I was unable to quit drinking and it wasn't until she threw me out that I was faced with the two paths. I could check myself into the welfare motel and drink myself to death or I could go to AA and hold on for dear life. I am realizing today that I am a drunk of the hopeless variety and only through letting go of self will am I able to not drink today.
I found that in the last day I am facing that same choice as reguards to my wife. I have two choices. I can live in the insanity which will eventually kill me or I can let go and live my life the best that I can. I'm not trying to be melodramatic here. Living in that place where I constantly evaluate everything I say and do and how it affects her and everything she says and does and how it affects me is killing me. You are right. This is no longer a game. For me at least, we are talking about survival here. Not just existance because I've existed before in some pretty scary places, but a real happiness that I deserve today.
Thank you Jack. I'm glad to have helped in some way.
I think it's important for me to continue to stress that at this point, I am almost totally without anger towards my W. I don't blame her for my feelings nor do I condemn her for hers. I simply refuse to hold on anymore. That doesn't mean I can't be in the same room as her, or touch her in some ways. What it means is that I no longer think of her as someone who WILL eventually come around. I have dropped the idea that just because I changed, it means she will too. I now understand that though I will continue to DB my arse off, it HAS to be for me now, like I can admit it never really was all this time. It was for her and the other night when she "pulled the rug" out from under me, I realized just how comfortable I got living my life based on HER reactions...especially since her reactions had been so good for so long.
I don't look to her for validation. I don't look to her for reciprocation. I don't look to her for anything. I look towards myself alone to fill my needs and someday there may come a point where I will have to do that elsewhere, but that day is not today and more than ever, I am good with that no matter what anyone else thinks.
, you WILL be ok. 