I'm referencing the possibility that she feels that the things you want from her may require her to change herself to the point where she feels a loss of self in the same way that you are fearing that you may lose your sense of self by doing things that have been suggested to you that go against your grain.
but i thought i said that when i told her i was just responding to her the way she responded to me? thats not being truthful? i mean, to me - in my mind that says... see, it doesnt feel good when you act this way towards your S does it? I think you get it..... your saying that is not being strong?
i do understand strong and stable are equals - they support one another. its much easier to have both than to have one over the other... i like to think i have both, but i am lacking them somewhere
plus, if i would say i am not giving affection to someone who wont accept it, she would just end up saying: i am showing you affection, i am kissing you, touching you, etc -- and of course me being man -- duh..... she got me on that one
I understand what you are saying...but saying (i was just responding to her the way she responded to me?) while yes, probably truthful is a tit-for-tat statement and well, just sounds childish (and I don't mean that as an insult to you)...you won't get where you want to be by behaving this way.
Saying...I'm not going to continue to give affection to someone who won't receive it. Is also truthful, yet a stronger more confident statement. If she responds in the manner you think she will then...isn't the real problem you are having that SHE WON'T ACCEPT THE AFFECTION YOU TRY TO GIVE? So, if she says the statement of ("i am showing you affection, i am kissing you, touching you, etc -- ") she is deflecting the focus off of the real issue.....the fact that she won't allow you to show her affection in your own way.....direct her back to that.
I remember at one point with my H he used to tell me, "I do kiss you." My reponse eventually became...."you kiss me no differently than my Dad or a friend would when greeting me. I can get affection like that from any of my friends or family. There is an absolute difference."
Also, be prepared to repeat yourself many times before what you say gets through to her. Your tone and actions have to backup your words.
you were being honest and told her directly that you were being P/A for the past 2 days. ...
(its just so wrong on so many fronts) what is... IS reality is not wrong. the way women respond to certain stimuli is not wrong. Its there for a reason.
Im sorry. Im not attacking you Andy. Im harried and off 'my game' with the humor and motivational speech.
(see. My explaining it to you doesnt change your feeling.)
whaa - my brain hurts and to be honest, i like your response and i agree that its stronger/more confident but i can bet you, it will never spill out of my mouth that way. dont ask why - i am just a neanderthal
seriously - i do understand that some of what i am asking her gives her the same reactions that i am having towards doing what i have to do. i am willing to do my part - my problem is i dont have confidence in her doing her part... and i know that is noticable and feeds into it, but unless i get assurance that something will give, i cant say i am willing to do it. yes, i just created a stalemate - lol - god i stink at this - lmao
my friends say i am "all or nothing" - there is no in between. if you want it done right, do it yourself, full-fledge, no looking back. alot of that came about when i physically revamped everything about me - i mean, i always had it, but that brought it to another level. that change really made that personality/attitude flourish
This is perfect. This is what you are going to do with your brain and your thinking on 'being nice' really means incongruence.
This ability, that you can bring 100%, you are all in, is where your confidnace will come from.
Baby steps Andy . Look for things outside the bedroom, the day to day where you are lowering your needs, placating, being incongruent. start there.
Don't worry about having confidence that she will do her part....STOP FOCUSING ON HER, focus on what YOU have control over and that is your words, your actions.
It's difficult to shift your focus from her to you, but that is where you must start. Have confidence in yourself to do the things YOU must do.
Thanks for the complement, nice of you to say. Now, would you please pass that along to my wife? No, I don’t feel as helpless as I did before, but part of that confidence comes from the realization that if I have to, I can and will get divorced. I may not like it doing so but I won’t walk on eggshells to prevent it. Life is not perfect, but it is much better. She can still tick me off at the drop of a hat (well maybe it takes two drops now), but I just do my best to hold it in. If I get really mad, then I will let it out and she can deal with it the best she can. The good thing is that growth is taking place, though I do wish it were a little faster. Still, it could (and has been) worse…
Andy,
Trying to understand what everyone is saying here was a little difficult for me at first. The answer to my problems seems quite clear at the time – it was HER! If she would only be more compromising, more willing to understand my needs, less self centered, less punitive, then maybe things would be ok. Whether this is truly the case or not does not really matter because the path you need to take is the same. Even if she is 100% to blame, the way to get to change is for you to change the stimulus that is causing her to react as she does. Only you can do this.
This was the hard part for me. Like you and so many others, it was difficult to understand why I should change to accommodate her poor behavior. There are MANY stuck on this board still trying to come to terms with this very concept. I think more and more the only way this can be done is to let go of your anger and resentment toward her and all the bad she has done to you. The only way I can see to do this is to push out the compassion (I say “push” because when you are angry, it’s DAMN hard to let it ooze out. It just isn’t in you. So you have to rise up and force yourself to be compassionate. Read my latest thread for more on this.)
To me, you seem to be mixing up two issues and that is making you confused. Your stated purpose on this board is your frustration over the lack of sex. I understand that. Lack of sex makes a man frustrated, angry, aggressive, maybe even a little vengeful, right?
of course i did placating.... so what, if the situation comes up again, just let it go and see where all the chips fall? see... this is where i start to lose it all - how can you be strong and stable, yet maintain a R or M? I guess you cant or dont....
Placating someone is not usually done out of anger or frustration. Placating is usually done out of fear or anxiety. You placate her because you are afraid of the consequences if you don’t. Is that a fair statement in your case?
So the question is – what is making you anxious or fearful? Whatever you may think, the answer has nothing to do with her. You have fear because of something within you, or within your past, that has conditioned you to respond in this way to certain situations. Her actions are just the sort of thing to trigger this anxiety in you. Therefore you need to work on yourself to identify the source of this reaction, understand why you react as you do, then recondition yourself to not feel anxious when she pushes your buttons.
so what are you saying... i should have just kept my mouth shut when she asked what was up? its obvious i cant talk about it.... at least not correctly. my brain just doesnt work that way
again - i know the deal... i just have to learn to accept this (its just so wrong on so many fronts)
So exactly what is it that makes you feel this way? I do not think it is lack of sex that frustrates you when you think you should keep your mouth shut. Neither does it have anything to do with her. It may seem like her in that she is the one pushing your buttons, but it seems like others on this board are pushing some of those same buttons and triggering the same frustration and anxiety within you too. How can that be if we are anonymous? How can words on your computer monitor cause these feelings? The answer is because it all has to do with your unresolved issues, your unresolved growth and nothing to do with her.
I also wonder how you two got started, since she is 5 years older than you. When you two started dating, did she have a little bit of a mothering complex and did you find that comforting? Maybe there was a certain challenge in “conquering” and older woman? Whatever it was, it seems like those same factors may have become sources of irritation for both of you. Perhaps she has grown tired of mothering you and you have grown tired of being mothered. But this means flipping that previous power balance on its head. No wonder this is all so scary for you.
Quote: Now, would you please pass that along to my wife?
LOL- Cobra,I will add some validation to Corri's. To me you seem like someone with a strong "frame". If I was married to you I might (probably would )disagree with you on many issues but I wouldn't feel anxious or confused.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I feel so sorry for you, honey. When you ask for help, you get it here, and in SPADES.
First, let me say that most people who show up here are about two seconds from going postal. That, in and of itself, is part of the problem. Let me give you a bit of advice when dealing with the boards, and any well-meaning advice that comes your way.
First and foremost, it is going to overwelm you because you ARE ready to go postal on someone, especially when you are new here. Second, you start 'getting it' almost immediately, because folks around here don't pull punches. You'll want to run out and apply it all and expect immediate results. It doesn't work that way. Third, when the advice you get here, and then apply it, doesn't immediately work, you are going to want to take everyone's head off for it for giving you lame advice.
But. You are one up on most people who have come here. You have taken on and overcome something you wanted to alter, very badly. Your body.
Now... when you started on your trek... was it hard? Did it piss you off not to get immediate results? Did you stick with it anyway? Yes. And eventually, slowly, gradually, you began to see results... which then became their own reward.
Slow down. Read the posts here in chunks. Go away, think about them... reread them and YOUR OWN. Don't worry, we'll tell you when you miss a que, when you could have handled a stich differently. WE are your barometer. And you'll listen and you'll soak it up like a [censored] sponge... and gradually... it'll all sink in... and you'll start working on your own instict. Heck, GEL told darn near everyone here to take a leap and did what she needed to do when she needed to do it. But. She had faith in herself and what she knew. You don't. Not yet. But I would bet you a dollar you could tell me how to get my body in shape no time flat, eh?
Learn the lingo. Learn the language. Give yourself a break and TIME. It'll come.
)disagree with you on many issues but I wouldn't feel anxious or confused. 
When you ask for help, you get it here, and in SPADES.