I didn’t think you had kids. I thought I saw someone mention to you that you should not have any until the relationship was fixed. So you two almost split once. Who pulled back from the brink, you or her? It sounds like she’s got you walking on eggshells. Even though you are going through all the motions and she is just sitting there judging each one as you run around thinking up another way to convince her, it is you who is scared, right?
She is very secure in the relationship since you confirm to her your enmeshment and “addiction” to her each time you bring up a new approach. Like Schnarch say, she is the LD so she gets all the sex she wants, when she wants. For her, what’s not to like? Do you see the game you are playing? You are the pursuer, she is the avoider. You pursue to sooth your abandonment fears. She runs to sooth her fears, what ever those may be (most likely some type of fear of engulfment, losing her identity, control issues, etc.)
What I found is that my wife is simply full of it when she puts up the front of wanting out of the marriage. When push came to shove and she was looking into the divorce abyss, she suddenly realized it was not so attractive. Not having someone pursue her was also scary. Maybe your wife is like this too? If so, the best thing you can do is stop the pursuit and be strong in doing so.
The hard part is that it will immediately have an impact on you since pursuit is comforting to you. She will feel relief. It will take a while for that relief to slowly morph into anxiety that you have detached from her, and that you are not chasing her anymore. It will take even longer for her to start approaching you. Furthermore, if you respond the first time she approaches you, you will immediately relieve her anxiety and she will think all is well, and it is just another of your games. So as Blackfoot, Corri and GEL are telling you, yes, you do need to change who you are, down to the very core of your being. But I wouldn’t think of it that way. Instead, I see it as a maturation of you true self. You have a deception (like so many of us) that your current self is your true self. I don’t think this is so. In this way, change is not something to fear, but something to embrace. It is also the only way you are going to change the dynamics of your marriage.
No! Absolutely do not change to the point where you lose sense of yourself, that's not what anyone is asking of you. The changes we are saying need to be made in you truly will make a better you...and a happier M for you. At times you may feel like "you are asking me to accept her as she is which means I'm giving up on what I want." and believe me we've all been at that point!!
It has honestly nothing to do with changing WHO you are....I haven't changed who I am. I have however made changes in myself that had direct connection with the perceptions of what I had become conditioned to believe my M should be. I have learned to accept my H for the man that he IS...now, today. Not the perception of who I thought my H should be....and how he should behave.
Look at it this way if it helps. If someone came to you and said...your W has a condition which makes having sexual desire impossible for her, it's not that she doesn't want to have it...but there was a legitimate medical reason that she simply couldn't. Kind of a sexual paralysis if-you-will. Would you love her any less? Would you find a way to make that situation work for the two of you? Would it make it easier for you to accept her situation and know it absolutely has nothing to do with her rejecting you?
Well...in a sense that's where she's at....at the moment. With therapy (actual therapy with a C, you making changes within yourself to accept her, and making modifications in your approaches to her)...she can improve and come out of that paralysis (much of this will simply be as an unconcious reaction to the changes YOU make). Does someone regain use of their limbs immediately after paralysis...no, it takes time. It takes time to build strength in the unused limbs, it takes time to trust the strengh of the unused limbs again to walk confidently on them, then eventually with use they become stable enough to use them freely without crutches, with time...that person may run. Same thing with you and your W.
I view your W currently as being in a type of sexual paralysis...you my friend are her physical therapist of sorts.
Hang in there...and don't give up. People on here have had success in the same situation you find yourself in.
Quote: i will begin working on some changes, but i refuse to change to the point where i lose touch and sense of me and my wants (which is what i feel like will happen). and if i dont chnge all that much, i just see it being this viscious cycle
Do you realize that she probably feels *exactly* the same way?
if she is feeling the same it would be nice to hear it and why.... i am not the one failing to communicate about this (at least i think)....
as far as the other stuff. i was the one to stop it from actually happening. i guess it was the heat of the moment where i was just like - no, i am not going to allow this happen. not to me, not to my kids.... i would suffer for all eternity for my kids. i guess i should have allowed it to happen though (she did have the clothes packed). hindsight is always 20/20
i realize if i am going to make this work i am going to have to meet her more then half way on this, which i am really not thrilled about - not in the least. i did forget to mention that we are about 6yrs apart (she is older, we are in our 30's. been together 10yrs, married 5)
i guess thats it. i mean, everything is as plain as day. i just continue to hope things turn around, but no matter how positive i try to be, something always happens to change my mind to think otherwise
I don't think there is a soul here who would blame you in the least for needing to vent and pout a bit over your sitch.
Just don't do it for too long, or you end up making things worse. No one is happy about problems, N, especially in the sex dept. But you can do this. Acceptance is key.
I'm sure Cobra could tell you a bit about anger and resentment and how it doesn't help all that much. But I will give him all the credit in the world... he got a grip, and now look at him go. Doesn't mean his life is perfect or he doesn't slip... but I'll wager to say he doesn't feel so helpless anymore, either. Cobra?
from these comments I am inferring that you did some extreme placating to get your W to stay. If this is correct you have pretty much nil power in the R, and therefore she has nil attraction for you.
the W woke me up w/ interesting words - nice kisses, and that peaked my interest. (This could be because i completely shut it down for the last couple of days. A talk ensued about that and I just explained how I was just taking a step back and acting towards you, the way I feel you act towards me. I am learning to accept what I have, what I know i cant have, etc. That was really the length of the conversation, at which point the W decided it was time to call it a night.)
Ok so you withdrew she checked to see your temperture with kisses and then you explained to her that it was a tit for tat, she got the underlying message that she still has the power, and promptly lost interest.
Becuase she tested the waters after a couple of days, it says to me that she cares about the R, but your emotional reactivity is killing her sex drive.
but no matter how positive i try to be, something always happens to change my mind to think otherwise
This is not a strong frame at all. It means the positiveness is just a front and you are not being congruent/radically honest.
She cannot trust you when you are flipflopping emotionally. It is not something she has control over. It requires her to take a position in the dynamic she is not built for. She takes it, but there is a price to pay. She becomes your mommy.
edited because I just wanted to add Andy, that for some reason, some measure of respect, duty, commitment to the R exists because
1)she came to you with kisses and nice words and
2) she continues to have IC with you.
I dont want you to develop hopelessness. I want you to realize and feel that what she really needs is a strong man.
next time your are ML, stay away from the no zones. dont give her the chance to raise that barrier. when you hear that escalation of desire from her, DONT charge forward. momentarily stop what you are doing. even go back to something a little less. Let her anticipate what you are going to do next.you can work up her desire just by kissing and smelling her if you take your time and savor it. That doesnt mean her barriers will suddenly disapper. Dont settle for the low quality sex. Demonstrate self control and non neediness by stopping the encounter, once she is all worked up, with a smile, and a teasing remark.
That would be a HUGE 180.
Ok Im stopping myself now.
of course i did placating.... so what, if the situation comes up again, just let it go and see where all the chips fall? see... this is where i start to lose it all - how can you be strong and stable, yet maintain a R or M? I guess you cant or dont....
so what are you saying... i should have just kept my mouth shut when she asked what was up? its obvious i cant talk about it.... at least not correctly. my brain just doesnt work that way
again - i know the deal... i just have to learn to accept this (its just so wrong on so many fronts)
Take a deep breath, calm down, and read every post blackfoot has made to you, again.
He is not attacking you, he is not trying to harm your marriage. He is trying to help you help yourself. You don't have to do all he is suggesting at once... as a matter of fact, I believe he has told you to pick one or two things and experiment to see what kinds of reactions you get.
She was testing you to see where her power lay within the R. Once she recognized she still held it...the attraction was lost. If you had refused to take the bait....you could have tipped the scales more in your favor.
Women find strength and confidence attractive in a man. Honestly, we find it attractive when the man we are with doesn't buy the BS we try to sell them too. Does that mean you have to be a jerk, nope.
You can be strong and stable in a good R, it's a good thing to be in fact. Strong and stable are not opposites...you do realize that don't you?
Your W noticed you'd backed off...so she gave you some affection and tested the waters...she came to you. As soon as you placated her you looked well....weak, you caved. Now had you told her that you just weren't willing to continue to seek out affection from someone who wasn't willing to accept it (and dropped it)....then, well...you'd have looked stronger to her. It wouldn't have been a jerkish comment, it would have been the truth (right?). You'd have honestly communicated to her why you've withdrawn and not looked weak (saying you are accepting what you can't have...sounds horribly weak.)
Try not to get too frustrated here....you are at the beginning of a process that has frustrated the hell out of many of us. As much as some of the advice you will hear may not make sense to you on here...listen to BF, listen to Corrie and others....they will guide you in the right direction.
i know this corri. i guess some of my personality shows a bit. my friends say i am "all or nothing" - there is no in between. if you want it done right, do it yourself, full-fledge, no looking back. alot of that came about when i physically revamped everything about me - i mean, i always had it, but that brought it to another level. that change really made that personality/attitude flourish (if you look way back to the first or second posts when i arrived).
i am not saying its right - hell, it probably did alot of harm. at the same time, i love what it brought to the table for me...
i know i am not being attacked. i do appreciate all the time and energy everyone has spent offering advice, help, etc. for that i am forever grateful.
