Quote: I think this one gets it partially right, but like a lot of MLC material, it paints a picture of hopelessness, something that I think many psychologists are REALLY good at.
Perspective plays a big part in this - and I think that this article really looks at it from the state of mind of the person in the A. That said, hopelessness is the name of the game, because hopelessness is a symptom of the highly curable desease of unhappiness. How many happy people do you see having affairs?
Quote: It may be denial on my part, but I prefer to believe that there IS hope
Of course you do, because you have taken your happiness into your own hands and recognize the power of your personal perspective. You recognize that there are always choices, and therefore, there is always hope.
Quote: . . .and that my W is not in full MLC. I prefer to think that there WERE serious issues in our marriage that no matter WHAT the reason she had this affair, need to be addressed.
You know that book I mentioned a couple of times, "What Happy People Know"? In it, he mentions that it's his opinion that MLC doesn't exist. I think this is interesting, and I sort of agree. I think this is one of those places where we label something based on context. I know in my W's situation I saw many signs that resembled MLC. Was/is she in MLC? I don't know, but I don't think it helps us to label these things one way or another. Once we label it as a disease or something of that nature, we recognize that we have no power over it, and yes, we become helpless. Your statement about the issues in the relationship seem to me to be a way in which you can choose to do something. You can take action against these issues in a way you can't address the affair. The affair is not the problem, the M is. So, yes, you are not hopeless in the M, but you are still hopeless about the A. This again defines YOUR perspective more than anything else. I don't think it really helps understand your W any better.
Quote: Can an affair happen in a good marriage to an otherwise "perfect" spouse? Sure, of course it can but as I think I have witnessed on this board, MOST of the time it's not that way. MOST of the time there are SERIOUS issues that run deep in the marriage that if addressed, can bring about some really positive changes and lead to a healthy renewed marriage.
I think recently my understanding of As has to do with them being a result of unhappiness. As such, because a M is the joining of two lives, there is mutual responsibility for each other's happiness, it's just that we seem to have all gotten it wrong. Unhappiness in either person is THE deepest problem you can have in a M. Period. If the unhappy person can sign on to the hard work it takes for them to be truly happy, the marriage will indeed become a great one.
Quote: Again, while I don't disagree with this 100%, the mere fact that it comes out and says there is basically no hope in these cases makes me discount it off hand. It's a matter of choice and I choose to have hope. If I'm wrong, well then I guess I donated a year or so of my life trying to prove otherwise.
As long as there are choices, there is hope. I didn't get from the article that there is no hope for the M, more that being in an A was a hopeless situation for the participant(s).
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Quote: I'll take a middle ground and say that I think some affairs happen in marriages that aren't really bad but find themselves at a really bad point. . . .(which my W hated). . . There were serious issues in our marriage to be sure, but the biggest reasons that the A happened, in my opinion, were due to temporary circumstances. I suspect that other sitches fall into this category as well.
I think I get your point, RB, regarding temporary sitches. However, I think this has more to do with personal perspective than anything else. You can choose to recognize what you can change and accept what you can't, or you can HATE that which you can't change. I think that the latter perspective, one which makes you the victim, really disables you. You feel entitled to better than what you have. You feel powerless. You are just waiting to be rescued. . . . Almost all of life's situations are or could be temporary. Your outlook determines how you look at these sitches. I think it has more to do with the way the wayward chooses to look at their world.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Couch it however you want, but this is pretty much saying there is no hope.
Quote: Romantic affairs lead to a great many divorces, suicides, homicides, heart attacks, and strokes, but not to very many successful remarriages.
Gee, that makes me want to try REALLY hard to fight for my marriage in the face of ending up dead for a variety of reasons. Somehow I don't see much risk of death in what I am doing right now, but then again, as you say, I choose to see things differently.
Quote: No matter how many sacrifices you make to keep the love alive, no matter how many sacrifices your family and children make for this crazy relationship, it will gradually burn itself out when there is nothing more to sacrifice to it.
Um, again, I don't really see how this can be taken as anything other than saying there is no hope. GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN OR YOU'LL BE CONSUMED BY THIS MONSTER it is saying to me. I see no other way to really interpret this. It's pretty clear.
Quote: Then you must face not only the wreckage of several lives, but the original depression from which the affair was an insane flight into escape.
Again, no mention of making a CHOICE here, just that pain and suffering WILL BE THE RESULT no matter what you or anyone else does. You're powerless to stop it.
Since I am a FIRM believer that context means a HELL of a lot, I will acknoledge that this text may be out of context and the REST of the article may contain all that stuff about choices and hope.
The way I read it here, on it's own, it paints a bleak picture with VERY little hope of salvation and even if there is hope, mentions NOTHING about it, or why anyone in this kind of sitch should have any.
I guess you're right. I CHOOSE to be an optimist and as such, usually shun such dark language to describe the place we're in. I suppose I like my hell with a little more fire and light.
Quote: Couch it however you want, but this is pretty much saying there is no hope.
Quote: Romantic affairs lead to a great many divorces, suicides, homicides, heart attacks, and strokes, but not to very many successful remarriages.
Yes - but no hope for THE AFFAIR RELATIONSHIP, not the married relationship.
Quote: Gee, that makes me want to try REALLY hard to fight for my marriage in the face of ending up dead for a variety of reasons.
Nope - you're not going to end up dead. If you were, it would have happened during the most intense emotional period of your personal crisis. This IS statistical information. You have to understand that statistical information is always going to make the outlook of a situation appear fixed. It's only because it comes out of history, which is fixed.
Quote:
Quote: No matter how many sacrifices you make to keep the love alive, no matter how many sacrifices your family and children make for this crazy relationship, it will gradually burn itself out when there is nothing more to sacrifice to it.
Um, again, I don't really see how this can be taken as anything other than saying there is no hope. GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN OR YOU'LL BE CONSUMED BY THIS MONSTER it is saying to me. I see no other way to really interpret this. It's pretty clear.
Again, this is about the affair relationship. This is saying that this relationship is so intrinsically flawed that it can't survive on its own merits, but rather it requires sacrifices to keep feeding the dramatic romantic love in order to keep it alive, and even then, it WILL burn out.
Quote: Again, no mention of making a CHOICE here, just that pain and suffering WILL BE THE RESULT no matter what you or anyone else does. You're powerless to stop it.
IF you continue the A, this will be the outcome. Any questions?
Quote: I guess you're right. I CHOOSE to be an optimist and as such, usually shun such dark language to describe the place we're in. I suppose I like my hell with a little more fire and light.
Keep on leading by example.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
hi...my H also left me for his job. he is gone all the time too traveling and going all over the USA. and i feel the same way,that he comes home to me it isnt exciting to him anymore with this new life he is living. i feel for you . i dont know what to do. he has been gone for 10 days now since he moved out to find himself and get some space and clear his head. i am not giving up but i am so hurt. we have been together for 34 years and married 28. i hope things will get better. i have to keep hoping. but it is so hard. Right now he is out of town for 3 weeks and havent heard from him much. this is so hard!
Quote: Yes - but no hope for THE AFFAIR RELATIONSHIP, not the married relationship.
Ok, you choose to read it as such, but in context with the rest of that part of the article, I think it clearly is talking about the marriage. Notice it say RE-marriages, not second marriages. You don't RE-marry someone you've had an affair with.
Quote: Again, this is about the affair relationship. This is saying that this relationship is so intrinsically flawed that it can't survive on its own merits, but rather it requires sacrifices to keep feeding the dramatic romantic love in order to keep it alive, and even then, it WILL burn out.
I agree that this can legitimatly be taken either way and see your point. It does actually make more sense that way.
Quote: IF you continue the A, this will be the outcome. Any questions?
Quote: Ok, you choose to read it as such, but in context with the rest of that part of the article, I think it clearly is talking about the marriage. Notice it say RE-marriages, not second marriages. You don't RE-marry someone you've had an affair with.
I beg to differ - If you've been married and you marry again you are remarried. If you don't get divorced as a result of the affair, you can't get remarried because you are still married.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Ok, semantics again. I still think it reads correctly the way I put it...and the way you do. This seems like one of those optical illusions like the old lady where you flip it upside down and all of a sudden it's a young lady.
Right now he is out of town for 3 weeks and havent heard from him much. this is so hard! 