Had one of those nights last night. H came home during the day and I told him how much I missed him. He came home for dinner and I rushed to greet him with a kiss and to tell him
how glad I was that he was home. We actually had a sit down dinner with S. I waited until dinner was almost over to tell H that next door neighbor wanted his help-I knew he'd be out of there like a flash. He did bother ot help clean up a little. Point: I specifically told him how much I had missed him and was glad to see him-he took off for the neighbors and THEN they went to the neighbors office. I was so hurt Andy. It seems I'm always last. If I say anything, like ususal, I'm making him out to be the villan. I guess they came home and yelled for me and I was in the shower so did not hear them so they went next door thinking I was over there and had a glass of wine. Neighbors wife called to ask if I wanted to join them-I politely declined. He came home about 15 minutes later, took a shower and climbed in bed with me. I was hurting. He asked where I had been-I said the shower-asked why I did not come over-I said my hair was dripping wet and I wanted to do my excercises. No touch, no kiss, no I'm sorry, I know you wanted to be together. Nothing. Had I not gone over and layed my head on his chest he would have gone to sleep saying absolutley NOTHING.
The old Rachael would have told him how she felt. The new Rachael just snuggled up to him and he was very loving after I INITIATED the contact. We ended up being intimant-the emotional connection was good too.
My question is how can they be so insensitive to our needs? DO they really not know how they hurt us? I feel I am always LAST. If ANYONE needs anything he is there in a heartbeat not even asking how I feel, he just goes. What do I do but what I am doing? Let him do his thing and keeping my mouth shut and not show him how hurt I am but keep acting lovingly to him. I kept thinking back to DR and some of the examples-the 180's. DO enough of them and they will start to change. DO I believe that? I don't know. I just know venting would have done no good and set us back. DId I do the right thing Andy? I stuffed, yes, but in the end we were intimant and there was no angry words exchanged. You, better than anyone know how much we have to GIVE all the time. The time it takes them to change feels like an eternity.
I'm still walking on eggshells having to be careful what and how I say things. I want him to realize what he does to me-I want to be put first, and that may never happen. I would then at least like to have him ackowledge me and ask if I have any plans for us before he just takes off.
I have a hurt heart today because of how long this process takes and the way we have to put all of our feelings aside to try and just keep peace in the house, and with them. We don't have to let them call all the shots, but what' the consequenses when we don't? Anger, setbacks,and resentment.
I will keep doing this because I have to believe things will change, and I want a peaceful house for him-for him, that's no controversy. For me it's having my H react loving to me when I initiate,but its also very frustrating and painful at times. I knew you would relate, Rachael
Quoting rmccord: My question is how can they be so insensitive to our needs?
DO they really not know how they hurt us?
In answer to your second question, Rachael. No. They don’t.
And that pretty much answers your first question, too.
Why is this so? Partially because they’re comfortable with us. If they aren’t comfortable, then they want to be, so they’re acting as-if they are. The difference is that DBers act as-if in order to change their own attitude, whereas most people act as-if in order to change others.
Will Adrian ever put you first? I don’t know, Rachael. He may never put you first wrt his actions, but something you have to realize is that despite what he does, you’re first in his heart.
Something I never posted before is that when my W was spending all of her time with MF, I consoled myself with the fact that there was no A. Not even an EA. She had no desire for him. Didn’t show affection towards him, and didn’t want to have sex with him. She only preferred him over me for doing platonic things.
But then, she lost her affection for me. I had no special place for her. It felt like an A to me.
Her perspective was, “No harm – no foul.” She was not having an A. He was a friend who happened to be male. If I had a problem with that, it was my problem. She wasn’t doing anything wrong.
She’d be right, too if not for the fact that things had gotten so bad between us she no longer felt she could confide in me. He was her best friend and confidant.
I had to suck it all in, Rachael. It hurt. It hurt bad. But, because of my going dark on this issue, she now feels safe to confide in me.
The moral of the story… Pay attention, Rachael. This is important.
I acted as-if she was right until she was right! Now, he’s a close friend to her, but I’m her best friend. I’m her husband. I’m important to her.
The boxer still feels the pain from those days, but he’s still hangin’ in there.
That is one of my main goals Andy is to be Adrian;s best friend. I know he felt like the OW was but he could not hold onto that-too many conflicting feelings. He was still in love with me, but she was safe. I need to be safe. Iam trying, but I'm not sure I really know how. How do you be safe Andy?? I mean besides kepping your mouth shut on issues they need to resolve themselves, and from things that make them feel like the VILLAN. HE has a wall up keeping me from being that friend becasue he does not trust it yet. What can I do to make him trust me more Andy? Rachael
Ok Andy, I'm sorry. I'm sure it does still hurt. SO much of this does. It suddenly hit me a few minutes ago what it feels like, this emptiness inside my stomach. It feels like he DOES NOT CARE. SO much of the time he TREATS me like he does NOT CARE. That, Andy is what is so hard to take. Rachael
Hey Andy, just dropping by to say hi and thank you for the advice! As for still feeling the pain for past events or issues...I had a good chat with my wife about that one (and yes, I broke down because the pain came rushing back to me) . Well, I told her I did not want to revisit that, explained the idea of an emotional bank account, you make deposits (and feel good) and withdrawls (and feel like crap) and that when I thought or spoke of the pain that I had suffered, that I was making major withdrawls. In short, by revisiting those moments, I was reliving them and all the pain, anger and resentment came back as well. This is something I refused to do! She went on to say that we were sort of living a death...the death of our relationship, of our love...I told her it wasn't a death, it was a rebirth, that we are reinventing ourselves AND our relationship. That nothing could or would ever be the same, even in the event that we came back together. There are certain things she would not accept from me and certain things I could NOT accept from her...so that it was useless to linger on the past...now was the time to make fresh memories, new good memories (cause even the old GOOD memories bring along with them a feeling of pain and sorrow).
So my advice to you here is that, even though we have come to depend on you for good sound advice and a helping hand...make sure you are not reawakening those past horrors and in so doing making major withdrawls (is that the way you write that?) from YOUR account!
I sat outside in the dark last night, trying to figure out how to nudge my H off his nice emotionally detached pillow.
I remembered something I said to him immediately before our trip to Florida this past July.
I don't remember the source but the saying was "the spouse who cares the less controls the relationship".
Andy, I should wash my mouth out w soap. Sage loves power. As long as he cares less than me he has that power, that control, and he can nonchalantly act as selfishly as he chooses. . .cause he knows I love him and that I'm not going anywhere.
I realized that you really are in the same situation. Your wife knows, consciously or unconsiously that she is in control of your relationship.
In my case, I am working through by turning things over to God. I'm trying to use DB techniques to help me control my actions so that I don't get in God's way.
You are using DB techniques only, right?
Tell you what, if we see some sort of miracle happening w Sage then you let me know and I'll turn you on to a couple of biblical resources.
'Til then, the question is, what's the not in control spouse to do? *******************
The flirting at the coffee counter. . .Sage is an actor remember? It could have been a titilating experience but it was flat and unemotional on his part.
I will make myself do it again. Sage is going to say that I'm being fake cause I stopped responding to his flirtations a long time ago.
I'm going to tell him that I'm "honing my skills" and not say anything else.
Andy, somehow, someway, you and I have to figure out how to break this mindset that your wife and Sage are in emotional control of our marriages.
I think that my situation is a tad more severe. Your wife is emotionally detached; Sage is emotionally divorced..
Your wife may be comfy in her detachment. Sage wants to come back but isn't feeling pain via detachment.He told C he knows he can fix this; he can't 'see' how to do it but with enough time and no hassles he'll put it together.
Dear sweet time. Slow time.
Sage and I are wine makers! Dandelion and mulberry are my personal favorites! Sage grows his own grapes to make stuff too. I want to make and drink some mead before I die.
I love the sweet mulberry wine the best. Don't drink anymore but love to give the bottles away.
Quoting Stephanep: So my advice to you here is that, even though we have come to depend on you for good sound advice and a helping hand...make sure you are not reawakening those past horrors and in so doing making major withdrawls (is that the way you write that?) from YOUR account!
I refuse to revisit the bad times with my W. Doing so would only bring out a negative atmosphere.
As to posting it, that’s a different story. I don’t post these things so I can wallow in the past. As you pointed out, I do it to try to help people understand their own feelings or even the feelings of their spouses. Dunno if what I say is helpful, but I put it out there for anyone who might be able to relate.
It only happened twice that my own emotions welled up the way it did Tuesday. When it happens, I just wait for the feelings to pass.
I’m not intentionally dragging out those memories, Steph. But I won’t run away from them either.
When I was in the depths of depression, my C asked me what I wanted to be able to say five years down the road. My answer was, “That I’m glad that never happened again.”
The implication of my response is that one day, I’ll be able to look back on the bad times with detachment.
One day, Steph, you’ll be able to look back on the “old GOOD memories” without bringing “along with them a feeling of pain and sorrow” They’ll meld with the fresh, new good memories of which you speak.
Lily,
On several occasions I’ve posted, “The spouse who wants the least from the R is in control of the R.” I’ve seen tree post it as well. I don’t know the original source. I think I read it somewhere.
Something else I heard is that one of the “phases” of a R is “the power struggle.” And to augment that thought, Dr. Phil says that a R is based on negotiation.
I always thought that W and I did a pretty darn good job of negotiating. I still think so. But at some point, W started to feel like I always “won.” The result of a good negotiation – especially in a R – doesn’t have winners and losers.
It all comes back to perception (there’s that pesky word again).
In that sense, you and I truly are in the same situation. In fact I would venture that many – if not most – of the people on Michele’s boards are.
I also think that by maintaining our love, we do indeed foster comfort in our spouses. And, as long as they’re comfortable, they won’t change.
I’ve been there. W used to be the insecure one. She would ask me questions like, “Why do you love me?” I was comfortable in my love. I didn’t feel the need to analyze it, so I didn’t. My honest answer was, “I don’t know, and it doesn’t matter why. I just do.”
Apparently, that was the wrong answer.
*******************
Your quote is slightly different than mine. You stated, "the spouse who cares the less controls the relationship". My view is, “the spouse who wants the least from the R is in control of the R.”
I don’t think Sage doesn’t care. I think that even a WAS cares. But a WAS has given up on getting what they want out of the R.
Quoting lily: Andy, somehow, someway, you and I have to figure out how to break this mindset that your wife and Sage are in emotional control of our marriages.
My take on it is that we have to figure out a way to break their mindset that someone has to be in emotional control.
Quoting lily: Your wife may be comfy in her detachment. Sage wants to come back but isn't feeling pain via detachment.He told C he knows he can fix this; he can't 'see' how to do it but with enough time and no hassles he'll put it together.
You may be right about the severity, but I don’t think either is completely comfortable. In a sense, it’s good for them not to be comfortable (as I mentioned above). From their perspective, if they’re comfortable, then there’s no problem to fix.
And y’know something? It’s good that Sage thinks he can fix this. If nothing else, it acknowledges that there is something that needs fixing, and that he’s gonna try.
And y’now something else? He may just surprise you and fix it. Wouldn’t that be something!
I definately fall into the category of the spouse tht WANTS the most from the R. I think Adny is right that it's true for most people on this board.
But..if we stop acting like we care as much as we do and stop trying then the R is dead in the water, so I think we're kinda stuck in this position until they start to change, and if tis is true what motivates them to change if they feel like they have control over the R.? I'm sure most of them like it that way. I don't make wine, but I love to drink it! Rachael
Quote: ...W used to be the insecure one. She would ask me questions like, “Why do you love me?” I was comfortable in my love. I didn’t feel the need to analyze it, so I didn’t. My honest answer was, “I don’t know, and it doesn’t matter why. I just do.”
Apparently, that was the wrong answer.
Through out the years, my W frequently asked the very same words, and I felt & responded the same way you did. The question faded away prior to the "bomb". Now, in the last month the question is back ... She has asked this three time in just the last week alone. I realized my response was not satisfying her at all, so I did some soul search as to why I loved her. I went back to 1982 and relived it all over again. I was astonished that I could remember my thoughts back then. Without going into details here, I remembered, that I did make a conscientious decision to love her and remember the reasons why. I found a way to articulate them, and the last time she asked (Tuesday), I told her. By the time I had finished, she had a gentle smile and a gaze in her eyes that told me she was finally satisfied with the answer.
. Well, I told her I did not want to revisit that, explained the idea of an emotional bank account, you make deposits (and feel good) and withdrawls (and feel like crap) and that when I thought or spoke of the pain that I had suffered, that I was making major withdrawls. In short, by revisiting those moments, I was reliving them and all the pain, anger and resentment came back as well. This is something I refused to do! She went on to say that we were sort of living a death...the death of our relationship, of our love...I told her it wasn't a death, it was a rebirth, that we are reinventing ourselves AND our relationship. That nothing could or would ever be the same, even in the event that we came back together. There are certain things she would not accept from me and certain things I could NOT accept from her...so that it was useless to linger on the past...now was the time to make fresh memories, new good memories (cause even the old GOOD memories bring along with them a feeling of pain and sorrow).
She has asked this three time in just the last week alone. I realized my response was not satisfying her at all, so I did some soul search as to why I loved her. I went back to 1982 and relived it all over again. I was astonished that I could remember my thoughts back then. Without going into details here, I remembered, that I did make a conscientious decision to love her and remember the reasons why. I found a way to articulate them, and the last time she asked (Tuesday), I told her. By the time I had finished, she had a gentle smile and a gaze in her eyes that told me she was finally satisfied with the answer.