Quote: You SEEM sometimes to revel in this process.
I didn't realize that's what I look like, but that is certainly what I look like. I can say that I am not consciously revelling in this process, but I can't say that I am consciously NOT revelling in it either.
Quote: What I fear is that you are SO wrapped up in the process that progress is not being made.
I am embarassed that I have been so wrapped up in the process of NOT losing my W and my M that I was overlooking the fact that progress has NOT been made in any way, shape or form. I have spent 5 months being so afraid of doing the wrong thing that I have spent that time kissing my W's a$$ in hopes that, as Frank said, if I'm good enough long enough she'll be open to me again.
Quote: Each new post to you seems like a revelation when by now, the revelations should probably be combing from YOU more than us.
I am an intelligent man. Unfortunately, in my M I turned off the real me; the intelligent, decisive, strong, confident LION. I morphed into what I thought my W wanted me to be only she didn't know what she wanted me to be and I only wanted to be me and for her to love me for being me. I was actually expert at being me. Somewhere along the way I hung up my b*lls and gave up who I had always been. I am trying to find that man again to re-unite with the reall me.
Quote: I think a lot of what Frank is talking about is just that. The idea that it's time to stop celebrating the PROCESS of self-discovery and start actually DOING it.
Unfortunately, in a logical sense, I understand. But you are not talking about a logical sense. To me the self-discovery needs to be in the primal sense of being a man.
Quote: I can't really put my finger on it, and someday I will, but again, there is something about your general positive nature in all this that is both great from a PMA perspective and disturbing as well. Like I said, it's like you "get off" somehow on all this.
I'll tell you what it is. It's called denial. The refusal to see reality and to live in 'WHAT IS' rather than what I 'WISH FOR.' I don't think I was getting off on it, but using it as a shield because I am afraid of failing in this M.
Quote: I am not saying you enjoy the pain on any conscious level...or do you?
NO, not on any conscious level. But I am not saying that I don't have holes in my subconscious that not only allows the pain, but seeks pain out.
Quote: I think that's another aspect of Franks analysis; you DO get off on the pain because you think you deserve it.
Frank pegged me so quickly. It's quite disconcerting. Or is it that I am that transparent and needy? I must feel that I deserve the "stuff" that comes my way. I have often felt like I am not 'good enough' or that I am 'bad.' The process of self discovery has been excruciatingly difficult and slow because I SO completely lost myself in my M. To put it simply, I don't really feel like I truly know who I am or what I like. I truly feel like a poser and right now I feel undressed and exposed.
Quote: One thing I would recommend to you is that you find the time to read some or if possible ALL of Frank's threads around the boards. While I don't 100% agree with everything he did because it frankly (no pun intended) does not really suit my personality, I DO identify with HOW he did things. In general, think it's a blueprint for how to not only go about DBing and incorporating other philosophies into it but also how to share your experiences and help others in the process.
I will print them tonight. ALL of them. The reading and dose of realism will be just what I need.
Quote: Your thread/process is basically to Journal, get responses, act amazed/surpriesed/blessed/happy/etc at the response, then post a lot of "I KNOW I have to do xxx and yyy" mixed with a lot of (please, don't take offense at this) "God will move me" stuff...rinse and repeat.
According to my counselor, I am a classic extrovert. I need to verbalize my feelings in order to process and make sense of my world. You're right. I do know what to do and what NOT to do. I am an intelligent man. But my fear gets in the way of my intelligence causing no movement, only sadness and more fear.
Quote: It's not bad, but after awhile, you should have been moved a bit more that you have been if you know what I mean.
Yes, I agree that I need to be further along in my self-discovery and in progress in my m
Quote: What's missing for me is the actual DOING part. I know you do things, but somehow most of that is lost in the translation.
I hear what you and Frank are saying, the time for DOING is NOW! No more lip service. Start DOING the work!
Quote: Look HH, you are no different than the rest of us. You struggle with WHAT to do and HOW to do it. We ALL do. Frank has just given you a wonderful gift, some of all of which may apply to you TODAY and give you cause for action. Read, respond and then do.
I gratefully accept Frank's gift. I have read his post 5 times already and will read it 5 more times tonight. Now is my time to read, respond, and do.
Quote: I KNOW you have it in you to comprehend these things and then do something about them. Of that I am sure. The rest is up to you.
No one is going to do the work to fix me but me. I sign up for the job. It's gonna be a lot of hard work, but I will find the real me, I will be in touch with EVERYTHING that makes me me, and all of my work will be worth it because I am someone to behold when I am.
Quote: I think Amy just said you weren't "manly" HH. Them's fighting words, lol.
It would be funny if I hadn't so willingly emasculated myself.
Quote: Seriously, I do agree with her opinion here. It seems like this job is an issue. Can you get another job that is similar in pay, or that will let you pay the bills?
I had my 5th test and 2nd panel interview for a job with a large reputable company with LOTs of opportunity for advancement. The last panel said they would recommend me for the position and that, although he NEVER does this, he would talk with some other managers about me and possibly using me and my skill sets in other areas than the one I recently applied for. I am DOING. I am so afraid to DO anything b/c I feel like any action other than what my W wants and approves of will surely mean my D. But who am I kidding, my W is so sure that she wants the D. I have to stop living for her because I am dying by not living for me.
Quote: Go where Frank leads you. You can trust him. He's been there. But make no mistake, it's not like you are waiting to be picked up and taken to have a fun day out at the carnival. It's more like going through a terrifying house of mirrors where you will meet yourself and your past around every freakin corner and you can not escape.
Not looking to escape. Trrying to escape from being me got me in this mess.
Quote: Once you go down as low as you can get...and YES, you have MUCH further downward still to travel...THEN you can start climbing OUT of the pit and THAT is when your eyes will begin to see, with awe and wonder, just why the valley was so necessary to your life....BUT UNTIL THEN, IT'S GOING TO SUCK like you just can not fathom.
In a strange and sick way, I look forward to reaching the depths of the valley because when I get there, there is nowhere to go but up, right? I am sick of feeling like I am in emotional limbo.
Quote: I joke a lot. Yes, even about THIS hell, but I am telling you, this is not a carnival ride and there ain't gonna be a whole lot of laughing and giggling in the next few weeks.
I have been feeling emotionally dead. I NEED progress to feel and BE alive.
Quote: You just fight your way through the muck and the mire with Frank to get there, okay?
OKAY! Frank, please be honest and patient with me. I want to break these chains so I will be free to be the LION again. I am willing to get in the muck and mire, to dive down into the depths of me, to reach in and revive my true self.
Quote: Frank pegged me so quickly. It's quite disconcerting. Or is it that I am that transparent and needy? I must feel that I deserve the "stuff" that comes my way. I have often felt like I am not 'good enough' or that I am 'bad.'
I pegged you because in many ways YOU are ME. It's like looking in a mirror.
Here's something I haven't shared before. For a long time I used to listen to these songs practically every time I was depressed. Every time. I felt they were telling my life story...
And my all time favorite 'victim' song. (couldn't find a link that was accurate so I put it in here)
Moving Pictures: What About Me?
Well there's a little boy waiting at the counter of the corner Shop
He's been waiting down there, waiting half the day,
They never ever see him from the top
He gets pushed around, knocked to the ground,
He gets to his feet and he says...
What about me? it isn't fair
I've had enough, now i want my share
Can't you see, i wanna live
But you just take more than you give
Well, there's a pretty girl serving at the counter of the corner Shop
She's been waiting back there, waiting for a dream,
Her dreams walk in and out, they never stop
Well, she's not too proud, to cry out loud
She runs to the street and she screams...
What about me? it isn't fair
I've had enough, now i want my share
Can't you see, i wanna live
But you just take more than you give
More than you give
Take a step back and see the little people
They might be young
But they're the ones that make the
Big_______ people big
So listen
as they whisper:
"what about me?"
And now i'm standing on the corner,
All the world's gone home
Nobody's changed, no-body's been saved
And i'm feeling cold and a-lone
I guess i'm lucky, i smile a lot
But sometimes i wish for more_______
than i've got...
What about me? it isn't fair
I've had enough, now i want my share
Can't you see, i wanna live
But you just take more..
What about me!? it isn't fair!
I've had enough, now i want my share!
Can't you see, i wanna live
But you just take more...
After reading Franks song references I felt kinda wistful and I wrote a sappy little post for Frank and GH thanking them for the work they do here and how much I appreciate their views and how they help me to understand my own husband.
But then I said screw it I'm not gonna post that so just let me say that Frank, I sure as hell hope you are listening to some better songs these days.
Quote: But then I said screw it I'm not gonna post that so just let me say that Frank, I sure as hell hope you are listening to some better songs these days.
SHEESH. Talk about DOWNERS!
Love you both to pieces, Amy
ROTFLMAO!! You are a psycho! I'm here at my office working and it's a good thing nobody is here because I laughed so hard I cried!.
I have a lot of other music I listen to that I have for years. These were my 'trigger' songs. Helped me to feel sadder when I was down.
I do still like "Supermans Song". I see it differently, as a ballad to the man (or woman) who does as much good for others as they possibly can, and asks for nothing in return. That seems to be lacking in todays society. People have become very selfish.
"And sometimes I despair the world will never see another man, like him..."
There seem to be fewer and fewer of us. And of the "Amy's".
I will reply post to all tonight. 
Somewhere along the way I hung up my b*lls and gave up who I had always been. I am trying to find that man again to re-unite with the reall me.
I am DOING. I am so afraid to DO anything b/c I feel like any action other than what my W wants and approves of will surely mean my D. But who am I kidding, my W is so sure that she wants the D. I have to stop living for her because I am dying by not living for me. 
I'm here at my office working and it's a good thing nobody is here because I laughed so hard I cried!.