Swan Dive off the Pedestal

[lily]

I think it's called Slowlee Slowlee. . .a goal has been reached!

Thinks are gonna get better, friend!

That's great ANS.

[Duchess]

Duchess

[KAW]

Andy,
I have been following your thread and felt your recent frustrations, but didn't feel I had anything helpful to post. Glad to see the status quo has been broken in such a positive way.

Cracks in the ice. Sign of a thawing. Hope that you will see some puddles of water. Just remember, how they come about ... drip ... drip ... drip ...

'til later,
KAW

[ANS]

Kaw,

My frustrations aren’t so recent. They just build up until I have to vent here.

I’m still frustrated in ways, but Tuesday’s exchange with W alleviated a biggy.

We seemed to always be getting into a clash of “needs.” She wanted space, and I wanted intimacy and a sense that I was special and important to her.

I avoided pursuing, but she wanted me to “change.” The change she wanted was for me to want the same things as her. So, even if I gave her space, my wants/needs were left unfulfilled, and she knew it.

So whenever it came up, she would point out people who were “worse off” than me. She would tell me that happiness comes from within, and that if I wasn’t happy about OR, then it was my problem. She got defensive. According to her, I was trying to make a R issue out of everything.

So, if I expressed my desires, she’d tell me why I shouldn’t desire them. If I didn’t express them, then I was brooding, or mad at her, etc.

Well, Tuesday was our 19th anniversary. A time when I want intimacy and the feeling of being special more than ever. That evening, I got passionate, but held back. Not to put too fine a point on it, but I didn’t jump her bones.

The fact that she acknowledged my effort, and that I was patient with her, shows that she didn’t feel like she had to use her traditional posturing to protect herself. Instead, she showed me genuine sympathy for how I felt. Maybe even acknowledged that there was some legitimacy to my desires.

She still isn’t capable of responding to me, or my needs. But she’s trying in small ways. Yesterday, she approached me for a hug. It’s been a long time, and it was nice.

I don't know what's next. I'm still hoping that we can get closer. But it still has to be according to her schedule/agenda.

TTFN,
Andy

[RMC]

Andy-I wish you didn't have to be so frustrated all the time, but that's just the way it is right now I guess. My heart goes out to you because rejection of intimacy goes straight to our core, and I don't mean just sexual intimacy but that's a biggie. I hope things keep getting better, and she can see that the importance that each of you fullfill each other's needs. Marital bliss and a perfect world~~ it eludes us all, but we don't give up. Sounds like she really is trying Andy. She's so lucky to have you. Rachael M.

[KAW]

Andy,
You have posted of the long standing pattern you and UR W have held for what must felt like an eternity and hence is a source of UR frustration. Then on Tuesday:

"W: You’re very patient with me."

The pattern has been broken by your persistent DBing over time and now will continue to desolve if you continue the course. This shows that "what works", but you thought was no longer working, IS in fact still working, but took a "little" longer to see than you expected.

quote: The fact that she acknowledged my effort, and that I was patient with her, shows that she didn’t feel like she had to use her traditional posturing to protect herself. Instead, she showed me genuine sympathy for how I felt. Maybe even acknowledged that there was some legitimacy to my desires.

Yes, there is a shift in UR W's way of thinking and I am glad that you recognize it. That is very important now. There is a transformation occurring here. It might be best now to sit back and just watch what takes form. No big 180's at this point, but patiently nurture what has been started.

quote: She still isn’t capable of responding to me, or my needs.

Andy, this still too big a leap for her to take all at once. In order to curb your frustrations, this needs to be kept as a long term goal and focus on the baby steps that get you there. As I have mentioned before. There is only one way a block of ice becomes a puddle of water ...

... drip ... drip ... drip ... drip ... drip ...

the transformation happens ONE drip at a time. (Hmmm, this might be a good candidate your next thread's title.)

'til later,
KAW

[2Learn]

What good stuff in this thread! Andy I'm happy for you and your wife for her acknowledgment of your patience! The part about your wife seeing you as playing the victim is somewhat similar to what we are going through now. Thank you for writing on my tiny thread while I was visiting my daughter. You are right, as usual, I need to stay the course and be patient with my H who has truly stretched himself to the max with work. He knows that this is no way to live but thinks the way out it is to go through this period. I can’t see that things will ever be different. I do feel sorry for him in many ways and I have forgiven him as best as I can for everything he has done that hurt me up to this very moment. I'm going to try to stick to the thread I'm writing now for a while even though it starts out with me in a pretty negative state of mind...at least the title is good and hopefully I'll live up to it in time. Think I better check out that "Fire Your Shrink, now with-a-new-title" book. I am pretty disgusted with my whiney, anxious, victim, fat self (not that I'm all bad but improvements are really needed). I identify with you, Rachel about not wanting to live anxiously and know that you, Phoenix, are right about venting as a way of staying in one’s crapola. Personally I do better with encouragement than with prodding and unfortunately have not yet mastered a healthy way to receive kicks in the butt (but I’m working on it). They pretty much lay me flat because I’ve lost touch with myself. I’m working on it the best I can figure out.

I got back about a week and a half ago from a lengthy visit with my daughter's family. She has been recently diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and is coping well with a lot of pain. I got to be with my granddaughter the whole time and spent a week with her at her bio-dad's while my daughter and her husband visited a dear family friend (the first trip just the two of them have ever taken). I am so proud of how well every part of my granddaughter's extended family get along with each other. She is a very fortunate little girl (and along with her mom would be top on my favorite people on the planet list even if they weren't mine!). Anyway, have been pretty busy since getting back and not moping too much. I really hate that I'm so damn self-absorbed too. For those who don’t know me, I’ve been a very sporadic member of this group for a long time, and once used the name alottolearn. I write and read up a storm and then am gone for months. At the beginning of finding out about the extent of the trouble in our marriage all I did was read and write, just to try to get my mind around it all, first alone then at marriagebuilders. I found this site after several months. I’ve made some important changes but still haven’t managed to make others that are also important. Still I am grateful for every moment of seeing things more clearly, every healthy limit I’ve ever been able to set, all the love I have experienced , giving and receiving, and that at base, I’m persistent but flexible, patient, and a realistic optimist (the realistic part is new ). The blessing of awareness and the chutzpa to do something with it are what I value above all else. I’ve seen a lot of that around here and am grateful for that too.

2L

[ANS]

Yes, Rachael. She’s trying. In fact, I think she’s been trying for quite awhile now. OR just got so messed up that neither of us could find the right things to try. Somehow, I think that things have turned a corner, though.

Actually, I think that things are changing quite quickly.

I think that W has pulled some trust out of the sky, and is starting to confide in me more. She’s actually asking for my advice on certain things, which were stickling points for us before.

For example, MF’s W is having major issues with my W’s relationship with her H. Since I kinda had the same issues, my W could never talk to me about it w/o placing her and MF on one side of the issue(s), and allying me with his W.

Sometimes, I happen to be alone with MF’s W while MF and my W are together. When that happens, my W asks me what we talked about. W used to accuse me (and MF’s W) of “pumping each other up.” But I think she believes me when I say I’m not trying to do that.

So now, she asks me for my take on why MF’s W doesn’t like her.

As far as physical intimacy goes, things are moving ahead, too. About 2 years ago, W told me that if we never had sex again, she wouldn’t miss it.

Then, about 3 months ago, she said…

quote:Originally posted by ANS May 21, 2002 12:02 PM on Goin’ with the Flow (Page 3):

…She also stated her lack of desire for me is our only outstanding problem, but admitted it was a biggy.

But she backpeddalled on that about a month ago when she told me that I’ve “always” (gawd I hate that word) put too much importance in sex.

Then, a couple of days later she appeared to reverse herself again, and told me she would take steps to get her libido back.

Yesterday, she said she was ready to try "it" again. It didn’t happen, folks, but she’s trying.

And that’s what counts.

Andy

ANS,

If she is trying, she cares and that is the most important thing.

Of course I know a little intimacy would be nice,
(Definitely can relate to that ) but maybe you won't have to be patient much longer.

Glad things are begining to budge.

rayanne