Swan Dive off the Pedestal

[Jamesjohn]

Hey Andy!

"But something I always post to people is that “what works” is a moving target. I agree that it’s a challenge to let go of what doesn’t work, but sometimes it’s an even bigger challenge trying to figure out what works. Especially over the long term."

I must agree with you that, whenever you're dealing with others, what works can be a moving target. However, there is another possibility of what can be done.

The best "win / win" scenario I've come across for "what works" is going back to the idea of "drawing" your partner back to you. This is best done by taking to focus of off your relationship, and put the focus back on you, to "be the best me that I can be!"

You know this, you've done it, you just need to keep focused on that when nothing else seems to be working. This helps to displace any pressure your partner may feel coming from you, gives them space to deal with their stuff, and gives them an example of a place where they might want to be.

"win / win".

[Phoenix]

Good stuff all around. And Rachel? Believe me, I KNOW anxiety and stress and all the trappings involved. I was quite the slave to my own stuff (and depression and about anything else you can imagine to boot ). I couldn't stand being around myself, much less see how others could deal with me. I also know that it takes time and work to get away from it.

Saying that...what ended up helping me the most was the prods/jabs from those who cared about me and then the space to do it. Truthfully, getting uncomfortable enough with myself to finally enact my own plan to get away from it. It's been almost 5 years now since I've done that, probably 8 since I started trying to figure out how within constraints I ended up discarding. Funny cause Michele's book Fire Your Shrink (which JJ reminds me is called Changing Your Life and Everyone In It now) pretty much lays out step-by-step what I did to get where I am. Only I didn't know about the book at the time . I did these things without meds and without too much councelling at all. And I was really messed up before. I had a lot of "issues" which I choose to not revisit today. Now when my old anxiety or other feelings come up, I stop or slow way down and deal with it. In my marriage and family, there is absolutely no room for the luxury of going backward.

So I guess what I'm saying is we are all different and different things work for us, but I still find that specific things generally have a specific variety of things that we can do that works to bring us out of the ruts. On the board I think we need to help prod each other to get out of the ruts. I understand venting but a little goes a long way. Usually, when one vents too much - they're trying to feel like they're doing something while staying in their safe zone.

Like DB, I'm not looking to eliminate but to see if there's a pattern to it and/or if it's a habitual knee jerk reaction where we need to break the cycle of it. Is there a way to change things so the frequency and intensity diminish. Good goals I think.

I'm not picking on Andy or anyone when I post what I post. Fact is, I really don't have a lot of emotion involved these days which is heaven for me. Ultimately I'm only responsible for me and usually make it a point to others to take or leave whatever I say. We gravitate to who we feel some kind of afinity for. Everything in life is a careful balance and I think Andy understands me pretty good. We actually have a lot in common . We've both come a long way from some rather persnikity reactive emotional states. Tho I gotta admit...One full time kid is enough for me. I can't imagine a handful, much less an autistic one in the mix. He's a better man that me (har har har). Have a nice evening all. This thread has suddenly gotten very very stimulating - it's a good thing IMO .

[Jamesjohn]

Also, Andy, just because your partner lets out a "knee-jerk reaction" when you've done something doesn't mean that what you doesn't work. In fact, it may often be just the opposite.

You may have taken them (and probably you) out of a comfort-zone, out of automatic pilot, which is a good thing. Especially when things aren't quite working the way they are.

In fact, if there ISN'T some kind of reaction, it may be dangerously close to "more of the same".

Some of the best changes that happened in my relationship were after knee-jerk reactions. Not immediately after, but usually very soon.

I thing that Phoe can attest to this, also.

You did something the other night that seemed to work. Don't discount that. What things in that exchange seemed to work, and what kind of solutions can you see coming from that information?

Phoe - I LOVE that book, almost better than the DB or DR books.

If I have to PAY someone for me to lay on their couch every week and listen to me talk, I want a foot massage or back-rub out of the deal!

(P.S. I've had some bad experiences in my family with the "experts" in the counseling profession. The only ones I've had any kind of respect for have had techniques similar to Michele's. The others seemed to have done more harm for us than good.)

[Phoenix]

Oh yeah - IGgy got really really angry when I'd hit on stuff that ultimately worked - for a long time. Because he wanted me to stop doing it. But I didn't and he then changed a great deal. Sometimes it's just taking the chance and not overdoing it sometimes.

[Phoenix]

I figure we still can't edit. Andy - Turn Turn Turn is a good thread name . If I recall correctly...I think it was the most productive and transitional of my threads. But that shouldn't stop you or anyone from using it yourself .

[RMC]

Phoenix- (or anyone)You said you have had alot of anxiety and stress in the past. Tell me..specifics on what you did to get past it! I am so tired of waking up each day full of anxiety wondering if he loves her or me. I know I have no control of his feelings,but all I can go on is how is acts and so much of the time I can't read him. It used to be crystal clear how he felt about me-now he does not say and do all the things he used to that made me know I was the ony one he was thinking about.I'm not so good at letting go of those emotions when I'm thinkng he stilll cares for her or would rather be with her, or worse yet-still having contact with her.He says he's not,but when he acts so differently towards me, how do I know? He tells me he loves me-ok-that's something,but the way he shows me is what matters. What do I do here instead of freaking out every day that he may be having contact with her?? Some days are better that others. I just can't seem to shake the insecurity of his A that lasted 2 1/2 yrs or the lack of trust that comes with it. I need some real concrete advise on how to move on-or I'm going to lose my mind imagining he is still having contact with her. Help me on this PLEASE, I want to move foreward but am stuck! Rachael M.

[ANS]

Haven’t had much time lately, so I’ll try to catch up.

You’re right again, JJ. It’s all about being the best you can be. I think that where I may have failed is that I tried to be the best person I could be, but W saw ulterior motives. From the start of my DB efforts, I always said that my goal was to become the person (in actions) who my inflated ego thought I was.

Initially, I tried (admittedly not always successfully) to lower my expectations of W. Also, to lower my demands. But she viewed this as me taking on a victim mentality. So, I kept it up. Eventually, W saw that my motives weren’t all selfish. But when I started making my desires known, she balked again. In our latest OR talk, she basically told me that my “needs” were excessive.

She bases her perception on our differences. Her needs being “right”, and mine being “wrong”.

But you’re right about something else too, JJ. Over the long term, it’s working, so when nothing “seems” to work, I just have to keep it up.

Of course, as Rachael et al point out, I get anxious. Oh well.

Fille… I don’t feel picked on, but one area where you and I diverge is that I have a lot of emotion, and I have no intention of quelling it. Yeah, it’s hard when I get down, but my emotional nature is something that’s too important to me to give up.

I also hafta say that it often appears that I’m beating myself up over my contribution to my problems. I suppose I do sometimes, but mostly, I’m just frustrated that I can’t seem to undo it.

Rachael… All I can say is that things are better than you think. Like me, things seem to stall sometimes, but without you knowing it, it’s getting better all the time. Hang in there.

Andy

[RMC]

Today I have decided that I am SOOOOOOvery tired of feeling anxious all the time. I'm going to give it my all to just "let go". Let go of trying to imagine what the future holds, let go of wondering if he is having any contact with the OW (this will be a toughy,but I'll do My best). 9 months is long enough to have NO life, and I mean none. I have been living for trying to save my M. I still want to work on it and will continue to DB like crazy. I reread almost the whole DR book today. It was good fro me to read the part about get oa life for yourself. IT will make me more attractive, plus I will start to feel alive again instead of the walking dead. I can't beleive what I've become. I want to look attractive to myself-and I don't mean "looks", I mean in who I am. When I look attractive to myself, I think I will start to look that way to others, including my H.IT all starts right here, tonight. Thanks fro the encouragement Andy-your right-things have already improved sop much. Look where I was 6 months ago! HE's home, and loves me, and wants to work on the M, says the A is kaput-over,so I have alot to be thankful for. I can use this time off as a time to heal and decide what The heck I want to do with the rest of my life. I will discuss it with my H, but ultimatly it is my decision. I don;t think I cna go vack to my job-I absolutley HATE it. I want to do something totally different than what I've been doing and I think nursing may be it. I guess I just got sick and tired enough of being sick and tired. Brighter days lie ahead! Rachael M.

[Jamesjohn]

"I guess I just got sick and tired enough of being sick and tired. Brighter days lie ahead! Rachael M."

Sounds like a breakthrough moment for you Rachael! Sometimes it seems to takes getting fed up with the way things are for us to move forward. I've been there, done that, many times.

A basic DB-101 rule...

"What we focus on expands"

I'm thinking that brighter days DO lie ahead for you, Rachael!!

[ANS]

Speaking of breakthrough moments…

Last Night:

W: You’re very patient with me.
Andy: I love you.
W: I know.

I’ve been waiting 2 years to hear this.