Swan Dive off the Pedestal

[Jamesjohn]

Just a quick thought on the moving target deal.

I know that, for the most part, when it comes to setting goals, we want to be pretty specific, and pretty focused.

However, could it be possible that sometimes we focus a bit too much on little things?

If we were to step back and look at some of our situations through a telescope instead of a microscope, would the target actually be moving as much as we think it is?

Don't know if this makes much sense, hadn't really given it much thought before this.

Discuss?!

[RMC]

My thought is that the little things make up the big things. The big things are usually too big to deal with. You have to work ever so slowly up to them. They always say its the little things in life that make you happiest. Well, I think for the most part that's true-plus, they would be more likely to trust a change in a little thing. Enough little thing changing and the overall R will be a big change hopefully. Isn't that what we're all about on here? There's not one of us that have one little thing that we are obsessing about. Its the BIG picture we want changed at least for me. Rachael

[ANS]

Nice analogy, JJ.

I guess that’s what I’m trying to say. If you look at something at a given moment. Even if you only look at how things have been going over a period of a few days, you’re putting it under a microscope. It doesn’t work, so chuck it. But step back and take a panoramic view (telescope), and you may find that it has worked 90% of the time in the past.

Personally, I try to look at the long run. But sometimes life gets in the way. W has been sleeping in (no time for me). I have to go to bed early because I’m working my kiester off lately. I can’t take any time for myself. Haven’t been to karate in ages. In the mean time, we hardly have a chance to talk. Not just OR talks but “Hi. How are ya?”

But that’s looking at things in the short term. I’ve posted how this morning went. It was nice. It made me feel good. Will tomorrow be the same? Dunno.

But when I can step back and look at it in the long term, things are getting better.

[Jamesjohn]

Ans - Correct me if I'm mistaken here, my friend, but I get an overwhelming sense that your general sense of well-being revolves a lot around how your wife is feeling, her moods, and how you think your relationship is going at the moment.

If this is correct, might this be a "more of what doesn't work" for you? Maybe a reason why the target seems to keep jumping around more than it should be? A possible reason why thinks seem to either work or not work for short periods of time?

Just a thought.

JJ

[Phoenix]

The only thing I want to address is when we spend too much time "freaking out" - here, at home, in our minds...we are continuing our own what doesn't work. We are keeping our own cycle alive which keeps everything else off balance. To me one of the biggest keys in this whole deal is we have to (absolutely have to) let go of as much of that stuff as possible, for real, as soon as we actually can. How to let go of it? By systematically not feeding it as much as possible regularly. It's hard, but what isn't?

In my own sit - believe me, it didn't change until I learned to control myself. And I still do lose it sometimes but compared to before...it ain't nothin. And it's really interesting in what others in my life take from it. Sometimes not right away and sometimes not at all - but it works. Re-read da books. Michele says purt near zilch about our feelings and it's one of the things I like about her work.

Ok, the telescope - to me it's like cleaning house. Do I focus on all the little things and get overwhelmed or do I come up with a plan and get it done? Well, actually I go shopping ...no. If I focus too much on the indivdual things then I would stay where I was which is where I did not want to be. When I focus on the big picture my life is very sweet and I am blessed immensely. Even when many of the individual things aren't going so hot.

JJ - don't think I'd go near zen-mistress . I push too many buttons, even when treading lightly. I just know that even tho things aren't paradise around here, I am completely proud of all the ground that's been covered in my corner of the world and like to try to help others get there too . Like you?

Andy - Try not to tailor things to your specifics for a while ok? Just try to wrap your brain around what's being said like you're trying to learn a new language or something (French? ). Again, I think it would do you a world of good to work with JJ since he's willing. And yes, you sound better - but you sounded better a few posts ago to me. Don't give in to the undertow. This is your life and life waits for no man.

[Jamesjohn]

Phoe, my dear, I think that I've been pushing a few people's buttons on various threads on this board, too, and might not really be welcomed back to a few places. I don't always tell people what they really want to hear. But you know what? That don't bother me a bit! It's definitely not the way I used to be, and, it least for me, it's been a change for the better. A more of what works for me.

I think there's a place for us in the fact we can challenge ideas that people cling to, to either help them see a different perspective on things, or to maybe help them to reinforce what they are comfortable with.

The changes have to start and continue within us. We have more power in our lives than we often believe.

The microscope / telescope analogy has had some significance in my life very recently.

One of the major issues in our relationship has been my wife's problems with depression. About 3 weeks ago, I had about enough of it, was ready to toss in the towel, and walkaway. I just didn't want to deal with it anymore, I figured that things weren't ever gonna get any better. She wasn't "fixing" herself the way I wanted her to, and I was seeing the situation in the microscope.

Forunately, she and our son went on a vacation, and were gone for about 10 days. This gave me a chance to step back, and look at things through my telescope. It gave me a chance to look at where we were before vs. where we are now, instead of where we are now vs. where I thought we should be.

Two years ago, during our separation, my wife would often spend the day in the closet just to hide from people, and from life. Things seemed pretty hopeless. After I moved back in, things were a LITTLE better, but not much. She was taking a lot of meds to ease her pain, which didn't help the problem a bit, only made it worse, made her a zombie. Slowly, we started weaning her off the meds, and began having good "hours" every couple of days. She was still spending most of her days hiding in the bedroom.

She's been getting better everyday, more good days than bad. And the bad days ain't anywhere near as severe as they used to be.

There's a helluva lot more to this story, but I'll get to my point now!

The BIG thing I wanted to have happen for our R was for my wife to get "cured" of her depression. I had some pretty specific plans, with some pretty specific time frames. Things aren't exactly happening according to my plans. But, hey, you know what? They ARE happening.

I was kinda tweaked last month because my wife either sleeps in until 10, or, if she wakes up early and doesn't see the sun, she decides it's going to be a "gray" day for her. I was having problems in my work life, and was growing resentful over her "stuff".

When I was able to look through my telescope, and see how far we've actually come in a relatively short amount of time, I felt much, much better. Some of my actions that I thought weren't working actually WERE working, only not in my time frame. Looking at it now, I'm glad she's working through it on her time frame, because her changes are more likely to happen and take a stronger hold that way.

ANS, as you see, I can sometimes ramble on, so I don't know how much you want me to come visit!

[ANS]

I'm at work right now, and I'm swamped. I haven't had time to read the latest posts, so I'll come back later to respond.

The only thing I want to say is that you (and anyone else) are always welcome here, JJ.

My step-mom once said to me, "The job of a councellor is to give you advice. You don't have to take that advice if you don't agree with it." I think the same thing applies to friends such as you and the other posters.

Like I told Fille, I like to think that I listen to the advice, but I don't always implement it right away - if ever.

But, to everything, there is a season (turn turn turn). Hey! that sounds like a good title for a thread, eh Fille?

TTFN,
Andy

[Jamesjohn]

Thanks, Andy! I'll try not to wear out my welcome here!

From my personal experience, the best counselors aren't always the one's that give you lots of advice, "tell" you what you "should" do. The best one's seem to be able to ask you the right questions, and help you to open your eyes to different options. You choose your path from there.

That is my goal here, so please kick my butt if I stray too far from that!!

JJ

[ANS]

OK. Here it goes…

I agree with you completely, Fille, that we cannot spend too much time freaking out. But something I’ve discovered about myself is that if I don’t do it sometimes, I stop sleeping, my hands start shaking, and I have an “inexplicable” feeling of malaise.

Though it makes me sound like a pretty sorry specimen, I have to say that as some aspects of my life get better, this happens less and less. My R problems are a large part of that, and things are improving a lot.

I can vent to W, or I can vent here. Sometimes (like 2 weeks ago), something positive comes out of venting to W. But I know all too well that doesn’t mean I should make a habit out of it.

Fille. I also understand what you mean about wrapping my brain about what’s being said instead of putting my own spin on things. I guess you’re asking me to look at things with a beginner’s mind. That’s something that we long-time DBers tend to forget. Thanks.

JJ:

I only had one C. It was during my depression. WRT my R, all he could say was that W wasn’t holding up her end of the R. Not very useful. He also told me to lower my expectations. Frankly, saying that to someone in a full-blown depression isn’t very helpful either. In any case, I agree with you that a C shouldn’t be telling you how to act or how to think.

But having said all of that, I have to say that, believe it or not, I have hard copies of a lot of the advice that was given to me on this BB. Yes, that includes JJ, Fille, Lily, Duchess, Tree… the list goes on.

So. Why oh why don’t I follow that advice?

Timing.

My gut tells me that right now is not the time to be proactive. Yes, I followed advice to have it out with W a coupla weeks ago, and I’m also following advice (and my gut feeling) to let W absorb it all.

One pattern I’ve noticed is that when I express my needs, W gives a knee-jerk reaction, followed (sometimes) by second thoughts. She never shares any change of her opinions, but she quietly starts accommodating me a little more.

You may say that I don’t express my needs in a way that she won’t give the knee-jerk reaction. Yes. That’s true sometimes, but I guess I’ve expressed myself so badly in the past that even if I use the right words, they’re taken in a bad way (initially).

But, y’know something? That’s changing too. Admittedly, tension ran high when I blew up. Of course it did. How could it not? But the next day we could talk it out, and the drop in tension was palpable.

So, right now, things are calm. No tension. Time to bide my time (turn turn turn).

TTFN,
Andy

[RMC]

Andy-Sounds like some of the symptoms you experience if you don't come here to "freak out" is plain and simple ANXIETY. I know it ALL too well. I too come here to vent so I don't explode my emotions on my H. It would have disasterous results, I know because I've done it.
On this BB there are all types of people. Some of us sound whiney somtimes, but I beleive we are all strong. It takes a huge amount of stamina to sustain the blows we've all recieved. Some people I have observed have seemingly reached a place where they do not "freak out", but most of us have periods of times when we just don't have the PMA that we'd like to have. In my case, I come here to freak out too-quite often too given my anxiety disorder,BUT and this is a big but-I do NOT freak out in front of my H anymore.
It seems some of us don't learn real quick,but I think that's only the impression we give by our postings. I know how I talk on here and how I act around my H are day and night. I feel I have learned a tremendous amount from the people on this BB and Michelle's books. I guess I feel the need to defend myself and those that don't always have that PMA on here. I think some people might read our posts and think man, he/she just doesn't get it. I don't think that's the case at all. We get it-we use it everyday, but we vent our emotions and frustrations on here-and thank goodness we can and do! I have no idea what this is all about,I guess it's just something I needed to say for some reason, and I opologize Andy for using your thread to vent. Rachael M.