Forgive me for not taking this advice. I TRULY appreciate your words to me, I hope you know that.
The problem is that this has never been about the OM for me, as SS says. She reminded me of what I have always believed in during all this. My marriage issues are a LOT more about other things than the OM.
I am not stupid, or in denial, I just choose to see things a different way.
Shippd, the main issue I have with what you are saying is not really what you are saying at all, it's what you're NOT saying. What you're NOT saying is the problem. So what if she does say she talked to OM? Actually, call me niéve but I think my W would answer my question honestly. She seems to have had no problem being honest when asked about OM in the past, why start now?
Like I said, what you were NOT saying what I do if she says she is in contact with him? Then what? I leave? I blow up? I scream and yell? I forbid her from doing it again?
I have never been about any of that since I began DBing. I have never been about forcing the issue with the OM, or really even paying it much attention at all. Why start now?
So, I am not going to do any of those things. I can tell you that no matter what, my sitch is 1000% better than it was a few months ago and while I KNOW I need to talk to my W soon about US unless things change for the better, I am going to do my damned to keep it about US and not him.
The fact of the matter is, shippd, I DON'T trust my W yet and she will have to earn that trust and last nigh/today does not help that, but then again, I don't really like MY actions either.
I don't want to beat around the bush shippd, but neither do I want to go off half-cocked into a conversation that I am not ready to have just because I snooped and THINK I know something. BTW, like you said, what's the point since she very well COULD lie.
I am comfortable enough with how I am living my life that I don't need my W to hold my hand right now and tell me everything's going to be alright. I KNOW everything is going to be alright.
I have proven that I will have the conversations I need to have, when (or slightly after, lol) I need to have them. This time is no different.
While I am confident NOW, it's taken YOUR posts to me, and those of a few others like Amy, SS and muddle, to get me to see the right way, or at least MY right way. I cannot thank you enough.
That's for you. I see I've got some reading to do, so wanted to offer a hug in lieu of words right now. Hopefully after catching up, I can offer you more.
Thanks NM. Wow, one of those spikey hugs. I don't think I've ever gotten one of those before, lol. Take your time. I am not in a hurry...at least this moment. Who knows later.
You liked that spikey hug, huh?!! LOL It took me a long time to read everything! Here's my thoughts...
Who cares why W called OM? Maybe she was just returning a sad-sack call from him ..maybe she knew he was busy and wouldn't have to speak with him at that moment and left a message...my point - who knows - there could be a billion reasons why.
I think the real problem is that you don't have a no contact boundary. If you did, then her calling him would be an issue. On one hand, you say you don't have a problem with her seeing him at the gym, but yet you have a problem with her calling him? That's a little confusing. Personally, I would be more wary of their physical meeting than whatever they're talking about over the phone. But, that's just me.
So, maybe its time to set up a no contact boundary. This way you have the assurance you need that she isn't in contact with him. You don't have to tell her you snooped, you could raise the issue another way. And once this boundary is established, and have that issue out of the way, you can focus on other things. And if she breeches the agreement? Well, that's another ball of wax that would need to be dealt with differently.
For some reason, GH, you still suspect something is going on. If your W is really committed to the M, then she should be willing to assist you in helping you get past YOUR fears. Or, at least the fear that she is still having an A. Even though you say you're OK with her still having contact with him, like at the gym, is it REALLY ok to you? Honestly? Because maybe that suspicion is what is holding you back in other areas as well. Almost like you can't give yourself whole-heartedly because of this lingering doubt.
OK...the pulling back thing. Letting her pursue YOU a bit. I agree with this. Time to change the dance? If anything, it's a CHANGE. lol Make her a wonder about you. Part of Dbing is changing course when necessary. You can go by the book, go by the book and still find yourself in a rut. So change it. Go to a different chapter. You say you've tried everything and nothing worked. That's not true. You haven't tried everything. Or you would have come across what worked by now. So do some different things. Sleep in the spare room. When she asks why, tell her you need some time alone with yourself. (I'm not laughing, I swear!) I'll bet you that sleeping in the spare room would shake her up a little.....
but.....regardless, it seems that you need your W to show you she can be trusted. And you're not getting that right now. So, you may have to get that resolved before you can move forward. Knowing whether or not the A is still ongoing would answer a lot of questions you have and also help put you where you need to be in your DBing efforts.
Quote: Who cares why W called OM? Maybe she was just returning a sad-sack call from him ..maybe she knew he was busy and wouldn't have to speak with him at that moment and left a message...my point - who knows - there could be a billion reasons why.
Yep.
Quote: I think the real problem is that you don't have a no contact boundary. If you did, then her calling him would be an issue. On one hand, you say you don't have a problem with her seeing him at the gym, but yet you have a problem with her calling him? That's a little confusing. Personally, I would be more wary of their physical meeting than whatever they're talking about over the phone. But, that's just me.
I agree. Actually, I didn't think I needed a no contact boundary because I foolishly believe my W when she said she didn't WANT to contact him for anything, and her litany of reasons why that was. I guess I somehow trusted her. Dunno what that was about.
Anyway, as for me being "ok" with them having contact at the gym, I am NOT ok with this. She has just told me (on her own mind you) that she has seen him a couple times since they "stopped" seeing each other. He supposedly left that gym (he's a trainer remember) but has friends that still work there so... She CLAIMS they didn't speak or "meet", just that she saw him there. To me, there was nothing to be "ok" about.
Also, I am not upset that she may have called him for all the reasons you stated. If I was upset, I would not have been as calm as I have been, and I assure you, I am.
Quote: For some reason, GH, you still suspect something is going on.
This is REALLY tricky. Let me see if I can explain. I actually DON'T think anything's going on. I KNOW she has opportunity still but as I have said in the recent past, I truly don't FEEL his presence in our lives right now. That does NOT mean, however, that I am sure he doesn't have something to do with our "barrier". It could be the memory of him, or his calls to her cell, or whatever. I seriously, no matter how much I freaked this morning, don't think there is anything "going on" beyond MAYBE a phone call or something like that.
That said, I would really like it if he never called or had any contact with her again, but I don't see that as a requirement right now, at least in terms of any MAJOR shift in my plans.
Quote: Because maybe that suspicion is what is holding you back in other areas as well. Almost like you can't give yourself whole-heartedly because of this lingering doubt.
I don't think I have held much of anything back. If anything, I have given too much, too soon. That is what I am worried about as much as anything right now.
Quote: OK...the pulling back thing. Letting her pursue YOU a bit. I agree with this. Time to change the dance? If anything, it's a CHANGE. lol Make her a wonder about you. Part of Dbing is changing course when necessary.
NM, you nailed it. That is what this is all about. I guess I know I need to change it up somehow and I suppose all this OM stuff was about making sure I didn't change in a direction that was inappropriate to the state of my sitch, if you get my drift. I am hearing the voice of OT (hmmm, wonder what that sounds like, lol) in my head telling me to not be in the R any more than she is. In my mind, that meant finding out if she was still OM bound (not that I did that mind you) so that I could use that info to make it easier to pull back.
If anything, that's why I probably resisted shippd's advice so much, because I knew I was using OM crap to prop myself up, give myself something to rally against again, when I know damn well that the rally point is simply not there.
Is there still some clean-up to do in terms of the OM chapter of our lives? Sure there is. COULD she be seeing him on the ultra-sly? Yep, but that's not where I am going to dwell. These days with my W, OTHER than the intimacy stuff, have been some of the best days we have had in years. Today, after all this even, W the kids & I had a wonderful time. There was no tension, just lots of smiles, fun and laughter. I won't trade that in for clarity right now, I just won't. Now is time to focus on the positives and if the negatives are that strong, they can come and get me because I am walking very far into the light.
Only here Amy, I assure you. I swear to God I don't really think that much about this stuff when I am away from the board. I guess that's why I come here, to think out loud, process and then leave the "work" at the office so to speak.
Quote: I thought you and your wife were watching a movie tonight?
Me too. We both decided to put it off until tomorrow night. Kids were up late watching a movie and we were both "movied out". We are spending time talking and taking care of some house stuff. Still good, but not as good as a night curled up on the couch with W.
It's good to hear the happy stuff, evenings of laughter you have together as a family, b/c Sh!t GH, your W really pi$$es me off most days, and today is no exception.
I find her to be wildly self-absorbed, and the fact that she directly shuns working on getting her own poop in a pile (i.e. counseling) has been off-putting, and now hello, we're still in contact with OM? Fcuk. It just makes me want to throw her fine-looking, sexy a$$ out in the road the way she treats you like a pleasant girly-man roommate instead of lover and fabulous MAN that you are.
I'm being your Freudian id over here, getting out your inner rant.
Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Is 43:18-19
If it seems slow in coming, wait. It's on its way. It will come right on time. Hab 2:3
Believing, I feel EXACTLY the same and could you throw my H out with her for good measure?
GH, For what it's worth, this is what I think. Mind you, it could be contrary to everyone else here and I am not as eloquent with my words as some.
I believe our sitch's are very similar. Our S's have decided, for whatever reason, to stay in the marriage. BUT, and I know you don't like buts.....I believe the reason for the lack of intimacy is the fact that the OP is still in the picture at some level. I'm so sorry. Whether they are still seeing them, and have become masters at deceit, or they still talk to them or still think about them. It doesn't matter, THAT, I believe is the barrier.
Tonight my H kept complaining how much his back and neck hurt, I kept offering a backrub and he kept refusing. I finally said "I won't bite you, you know"
Tomorrow we are going to the next state to a waterpark mini vaca, I asked him if he still wants to go. He said absolutely it will be great for us. WTF? This from a man that can't even kiss me goodnight or SAY ILY? (He can write it, just not say it)
Sorry for rambling.....anyway, we both are knee deep in DB land, if saving our marriage is still what we want.
Therefore, my advice to you, should you take it, would be to step back a bit. For real. You are trying so hard and she is just not responding. Your pride and ego are being stomped on over and over again. GH, how much more can you take? I don't care what she thinks, but you should really consider stopping the backrubs.....really.....why should she get what she wants??? What if you wanted a backrub? Would you get one? You and I my friend, are both a little afraid to piss our S's off. We don't want to rock the boat. But at what price are we paying? We are sacrificing our own needs. It is time to re-read DR, AGAIN and realize that we are going down cheeseless tunnels. What can we do different?????? That is your homework my friend. Who loves ya? Mama does, we have been in this together for a long time, let's see if we can exit at the same time too?
This is REALLY tricky. Let me see if I can explain. I actually DON'T think anything's going on. I KNOW she has opportunity still but as I have said in the recent past, I truly don't FEEL his presence in our lives right now. That does NOT mean, however, that I am sure he doesn't have something to do with our "barrier". It could be the memory of him, or his calls to her cell, or whatever. I seriously, no matter how much I freaked this morning, don't think there is anything "going on" beyond MAYBE a phone call or something like that.
