So you snooped. First off, I gotta say wow... the phone was left in such a place that you even had the opportunity to do that? Cool. Nothing to hide. History is right there on the phone. Cool. Not hiding anything. No cover up to get a babysitter. Cool. Calls you to check in and you verify her story. Cool.
What part of this unplanned test did she fail?
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
Shippd, I am not afraid of her reaction. If I ask her about something and her reaction is to leave the marriage, then I guess there wasn't much to build on anyway.
IF I am afraid of something, and I am not sure I am, is that my timing may not be right. Like I said shippd, I am not nearly as much motivated my hatred of limbo as you were. I KNOW you had to get *there* before you could finally let go. I am no better than you, just different. I let go very early on and am working to grab on again. It's just a different approach. My problem is in re-learning how to be direct instead of suppressing my feelings.
In this respect I think you are on to something, but I truly don't think it's fear that prevents me from talking to her.
Quote: it still needs fixed, and she is not really doing anything in regaurds to that goal.
Well, that idea is core to DB and so long as my marriage is in "crisis mode" which I think it is, I will continue to take much more of the burden for working on it. I KNOW this is a two person process but I also feel that pressure to move faster then she wants to move can be counterproductive...just like NOT saying anything can be. It's a line I am walking and I just have to hope I know what I am doing.
Quote: but my friend please dont be affaid of talking to her about your marriage, you have feelings as well and she needs to know those feelings
Well, actually, my FEELINGS have not changed. I think that's why DB advocates no R talk because we end up saying the same things over and over again in an attempt to get them to REALLY hear us and thinking that if they REALLY heard us, they would stop this insanity. I don't believe in that. I KNOW my W knows how I feel and what I want. Me telling her for the 50th time would not change anything. If anything, I just need to do something different, or keep doing the same thing...longer.
He and his wife are living together again after both had affairs...he had a sort of MLC...he had an affair first, moved out, shacked up with OW....came to his senses...wife was in a relationship. That ended and she moved back to Ca. from Oregon so he could be close to his son. He's had a long haul to get to this stage but he's waffling over intimacy issues now that they are living together again.
I will be glad to Amy, but with all due respect, I don't think I am the one to talk about that stuff right now. I don't feel like I have a handle on that stuff AT ALL.
Quote: So you snooped. First off, I gotta say wow...
Sorry. I know.
Quote: the phone was left in such a place that you even had the opportunity to do that? Cool. Nothing to hide.
Wrong. She still leaves her phone in her car at night. Has ever since OM started calling her and it's one of the things that lets me know that it's VERY likely that at the very least, he still tries to contact her but the bottom line is that since she TOLD me he tries to call all the time, why not just bring the phone inside like she used to before all this? I mean if there is nothing to hide, and considering NOBODY she knows, including her parents, use our home phone to call her, then WTF?
Like I said. Wrong. She is still trying to hide it and I had to go into her car, into her purse and under some stuff to get to it.
Quote: History is right there on the phone. Cool. Not hiding anything.
Please don't think I am saying my W is not smart because I KNOW she is. She is one of the brightest people I know. She has 4 degrees and is wonderfully intelligent but when it comes to ANYTHING tech related, i.e. a very complicated phone, she is lost. I sincerely doubt she even knows how to access that list. I have tried to get her to see all that (really, I did that after the only other time I snooped, to prevent me from being able to snooping again) but she shut me down, saying that she didn't care and just needed her phone book and that was all. She didn't care about the rest of the stuff. So, that again proves nothing. I don't think she realizes that you can erase things from that list (actually I didn't know that either until very recently).
Quote: No cover up to get a babysitter. Cool.
Um, her cover is all the "DUI" stuff she can't do with the boys around. I have to also point out that this is literally the THIRD time in 6 years that we have had a babysitter in our house that is not related to us. For her to do this, it had to be REALLY important, and yes, if she needed to get her stuff done, than that counts. The problem I have are is that she has been CONSTANTLY complaining about our financial situation lately, even as of last night and yet she can justify spending 40-50 dollars so she doesn't have to have the kids waiting in line with her at the courthouse or when she pays a visit to her community service advisor to schedule an appt? Um, ok, I guess.
Again, could go either way, but I think my suspicion is justified.
Quote: Calls you to check in and you verify her story. Cool.
Yep, early on. Now it's been almost 2 hours and I can't get her on her phone. She SAID she would be in route now, on her way home...and this is a woman who gets SERIOUSLY bent when her parents or I don't answer our phones.
Oh, and the last time I talked to her (I called about something she said to remind her about), first of all, she didn't answer, and then when she did call back a few minutes later she had that fake "I can't talk freely" voice on yet she said she was just getting in her car to go to the next place.
Look, I AM paranoid. I freely admit that, but just because I am paranoid does not mean I am wrong.
I may have to have that talk with her tonight because I can't let this simmer.
Quote: I had to go into her car, into her purse and under some stuff to get to it.
That's not just snooping, that's diggin' fer dirt! FWIW, I think we all get to a point in a stagnant or limbo R that we want to make something happen, good or bad, so at least we have something to deal with. You've said it was easier when you had something to rally against, I agree. Look at this as the 'lucky break' you need to step up and zoom in again to clear up a fuzzy picture.
Quote: I may have to have that talk with her tonight because I can't let this simmer.
24 hour rule? cool off period?
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
Quote: That's not just snooping, that's diggin' fer dirt!
Ok, that's fair, but I don't really see that WHERE I got the info, or how hard I had to work for it really matters. It was still snooping on her phone and the fact that I had to go to all that to get to it is a factor in WHY I suspect her in the first place...anyway...
Quote: FWIW, I think we all get to a point in a stagnant or limbo R that we want to make something happen, good or bad, so at least we have something to deal with. You've said it was easier when you had something to rally against, I agree. Look at this as the 'lucky break' you need to step up and zoom in again to clear up a fuzzy picture.
Very good way to turn this negative into a positive. Thank you for that.
Quote: 24 hour rule? cool off period?
Actually, this may be a good idea except that I am not really emotional or "hot" right now. I am calm and just thinking a lot. I don't know it that requires the same "cooling off" as would be the case if I was all upset and thought I was going to CONFRONT her rather than talk to her.
Like Muddle said awhile ago, I want to try to come at this from a "nice" place, not an angry, accusing one.
For THAT to happen, I may indeed need 24 hours because I am not quite there yet.
Funny, I was gonna post my new "script" that I came up with while at lunch but I forgot it. Somebody (quiet Amy) is trying to tell me something, lol.
gh, im sorry man, i wish there was better news, but you do have a right to be worried, pissed, upset, all the things you are feeling is justified and normal, just take a deep breath. we have all been there and you have been there too. now what do you do from here, what ever that is make a plan. be ready to accept what ever happens. i know what i would do, but we are different in many ways on how to handle this kind of thing, but i do think you need to do something, just for your own mind, but remember our minds go through crazy things, that are true and false, you just have to find the middle. your right to think she is decieving you somewhat, but what is that, you live with her, you see her everyday, only you can figure out what to do, im sorry but i cant tell you either way. did you see her getting ready this morning? what was she wearing? you know the questions im asking, just answer your own questions and take care man, im am thinking of you, wishing i could help you more, but honestly i do know how.
First, (((((((((GH)))))))))). I know you are really having a hard time lately.
I know you don't want to do this because you can see you are making progress, but you must BACK OFF. You are no longer in crisis mode. Your W has committed to staying in your M and she said she ended the A right? If the answer is yes, then you are in rebuilding mode. And that means you have to give her at least some mystery as well as some opportunity to pursue you.
The fact that you have changed how you interact with your W is important but that is only half of the equation. I haven't seen any evidence of you giving her any opportunity to pursue you. You rub her back, you tell her she is sexy and you are always available when she needs you. This is nice, but it will only let her take you for granted and they are all physical things.
How have you shown her you love and appreciate her in non-physical ways. (Have you done the 5 languages of love yet? If not, I would highly suggest doing so.) I know that until I really understood why my H needed physical touch and compliments about how nice he looks it pissed me off that he was so needy for them. Perhaps your W feels the same way, so nearly all touching is going to be interpreted as unwanted. I know you have overanalyzed every aspect of your sitch (as have we all) but I'm not sure you have really learned to tune in to your W's love language.
I have noticed that the less my H and I talk about the ow or our M the more things move forward. So as much as you want to, do not have an R talk. If she brings things up, what she really wants is for you to listen to her.
Please, GH, don't be afraid of taking temporary steps back for the sake of overall forward movement.
That's not just snooping, that's diggin' fer dirt!