Quote: what is my boundry in regaurds to om? will i continue to allow her to talk to him or see him?
Shipped, leave it to me to use my own crap to tell YOU something but... the way you put this is a little off. You said I have to figure out what MY boundaries are in regards to this and then you said I have to ask myself if I will continue to "allow" her to see OM. My boundary on this has nothing to do with allowing her to do anything. It has to do with what my reaction will be if I find out she is still seeing him. I think that's REALLY important to understand because thinking of boundaries as something you set for OTHER people is the same as activly trying to control them. I do not want to control my W, only myself.
There, got that out of the way. In answer to your question, as much as I talk about boundaries and such with you and other people, I guess I have to be honest and say that i really had not thought about what I would do if she were still seeing him. I know I said my actions would change but in terms of what it does to my outlook on our R and whether I would make any drastic changes, i.e. moving out or asking her to leave, I have not really thought about it. I guess, again, trying to be honest, I never really think about those things because I found a way to do this without either of us being gone so my boundaries are mostly about what I will do in the context of our life as it currently is, without relocation by either of us.
I guess that's an answer of sorts.
Quote: i do think you need to have this conversation with her today, right now, before she goes to where ever she is going. unless you are confortabul with her still in contact with him. which i dont think you are, so confront her let her know you know, and ask whats up with it. do it now, right now
Sorry shippd, I can't do that. I won't have that talk over the phone so I will have to wait until tonight. I am not trying to stop her from going wherever she's going so I don't feel any sense of urgency. I only want to call to, yes, as sad as it sounds, check up on her.
Quote: GH - I'm really sorry to hear that you have reason to doubt her again. I have read that there's a withdrawal period (I guess time for grieving the loss of this OP) that restarts every time contact is resumed. If she has in fact been contacting him, this is keeping alive her fantasy and indeed maintaining the wall between you two.
Thanks muddle. This is what I am afraid of too.
Quote: So, that said, maybe you should tell her that you haven't gotten a clear picture yet of whether this OM issue has been resolved on her part, or whether she has committed to no contact. Maybe you can come at it more from an angle of compassion - "I know this period must be hard for you - I'd like to be there for you in any way possible." This IS the truth, right? You're not being deceptive if you tell her this.
That is exactly how I want to approach it. You put it much better than I did. Thank you.
Quote: You always say that snooping give you a false snapshot of what is actually going on. I guess what I'm saying here is that maybe you ought to try and get the BIG PICTURE from her, rather than asking her for some of that snapshop information so you can tell if she's lying or not.
VERY, VERY, VERY good use of my own words against me, lol. I think you are VERY right.
Quote: That being said though....HELL YES, CALL HER.
Don't worry Amy, no matter what you all said, I was going to call her anyway.
Thanks again. I still don't know if I want to talk to her or just observe some more (not snoop). Amy, you asked me what I wanted you all to say. I guess I wanted you to have a chance to tell me that I was full of $hit and that I was making a big mistake.
Quote: You always say that snooping give you a false snapshot of what is actually going on.
One more time...I just wanted to clarify that in NO way did I think snooping would provide me with any kind of "big picture" or really any truth. It merely let me know that she's been in contact with him, more importantly that she initiated contact with him. I still don't know WHY she did this and to me, there is a lot of power in the why, even though I know it's still bad that she did it at all.
Quote: Amy, you asked me what I wanted you all to say. I guess I wanted you to have a chance to tell me that I was full of $hit and that I was making a big mistake.
No can do.
You ALWAYS need the truth, even if it hurts.
That does not mean that you are not full of sh*t, though.
It only means that you aren't full of shi*t THIS time.
She's been calling me CONSTANTLY while she's on the road. She has always done this when traveling downtown. She hates to drive in general and downtown is the worst for her. She always gets lost, etc. So far, if this is a test, she has passed with flying colors. I can tell that she was where she said she was by the convo.
I know that does NOT mean I don't need to talk to her about the calls, but it does semi-mean that some of my thunder is lost. A lot of my motivation for all this was about the idea that she's seeing him now, and while it IS possible that he's meeting her somewhere, I sincerely doubt she would go through all this trouble to do it. She has ample opportunity to see him even WITH the kids (there is a child care thing at the gym so she could see him there and the kids would not be around) so why do all this? Even if she is pulling a fast one on me, it would have to be VERY fast indeed because since she's left the house, not 15 minutes has gone by where she didn't call me for some reason.
We'll see how the rest of the morning goes and if there are any large pockets of time where I don't hear from her or can't get her on the phone.
I know she'll want directions from where she is now to the next place she says she's going (she told me that) so I expect a call in a few minutes.
I hate to be like this, I really do, and now, thinking back to the snooping, I realize that IF this turns out to be nothing, then I DID break my own snooping rule because she pretty much admitted that she sees him on occasion passing throught the gym and that he calls her all the time still. I snooped and now I THINK I know something more than I do. I THINK she called him for what? It COULD be to tell him to f--k off and leave her alone. I have no idea and in hindsight, I have only gotten DETAILS about something I already knew, thus violating the rule. Damnit.
you know gh i understand that you did not like what i posted to you. which is fine, all our sitch's are the same is some was and different in others, and yes we all handle them in different ways. with that said, even you have said that our sitchs seem to have close ties. my state of limbo consummed me really bad, you know that, but me like you will sooner or later finally could not take it anymore. so i had the talk with my wife, and i grew some balls and told her how i felt about this limbo, that i was not going to take it anymore, i told her i loved her, i value her openion, and she had every right to find her happyness. but i did also, and at this point i was not happy and i was not going to do this anymore, and you know what, IT MADE HER THINK, that possibly if she truly wanted this to work it was time that she started making it work. is it your time to have that talk with her, only you know that, only you know how much longer you can do this. know what do you know at this point. 1)om has contacted your w 2)w has also contacted om. thats all you know. if you need to know any more you HAVE to ask her. if not then go on as if. its your choice, you asked for advice i then gave my 2 cents worth, just like i am now.
I don't know where you got the idea that I didn't like what you said. I actually REALLY liked it. It was simply a matter of timing. I am at work and can't take the time to do what you were suggesting. Later tonight. That is a distinct possiblility. And if I liked your last post, I LOVE this one!
Quote: my state of limbo consummed me really bad, you know that, but me like you will sooner or later finally could not take it anymore.
The difference is that I don't feel I am anywhere near consumed by limbo. Right now, there is nothing to take...or leave. That's what limbo is and until I run out of things to work on with ME, then I will probably not be consumed by this state of being. That said, point taken. I WILL NOT do this forever, it's just I think I have a lot more in me.
Quote: so i had the talk with my wife, and i grew some balls and told her how i felt about this limbo, that i was not going to take it anymore, i told her i loved her, i value her openion, and she had every right to find her happyness. but i did also, and at this point i was not happy and i was not going to do this anymore, and you know what, IT MADE HER THINK, that possibly if she truly wanted this to work it was time that she started making it work.
I see your point here, and I think the time may come for some "ball growing" on my part, but I think my balls are fine the size they are, lol. I just wish someone would pla...er...sorry.
Where was I...
Shippd, you are right. IF she does not start DOING something, then I may have to have that talk. I just think that the issues in our life make it very possible that more time needs to pass and I am willing to endure that, and allow that to happen. I assume the FULL responsibility if that is the wrong approach.
Quote: is it your time to have that talk with her, only you know that, only you know how much longer you can do this. know what do you know at this point. 1)om has contacted your w 2)w has also contacted om. thats all you know. if you need to know any more you HAVE to ask her. if not then go on as if.
Yes, yes and yes. This is the part I like so much because you nailed it. Either fish or cut bait NOW. I know I have to make that decision VERY soon because to not do so would be to get caught up in the "what if" game and allow myself to be mired down by all this crap in my head. Thank you for your clarity.
GH, In regards to the snooping. Yes, it is bad. Like you said it only proves that they are still talking, yet you have NO IDEA what was said. I know you why you did it though, because you can't figure out why your R is not moving forward. In any case, OM is still in the picture, so what? DOES that really change what we are all doing here? Continue to DB like a "M-fer" (your words)!!
Even if she does meet him this morning it could be to tell him once and for all that it is over between them, that she loves you and to leave her the hell alone. Right?
Mama, I really like you. Thank you for that piece of wonderful PMA.
I think you are right of course. That's why I am going to take back what I said. I DO regret snooping and I was my own test case to see if my new ideas about snooping held water. They do not. Snooping is bad. Period, no exceptions. Like shippd said, if you want to know something, ask them and if they lie, well, then they do, but what you get from them is likely to really tell you as much or more than snooping whether they lie or not.
gh let me ask you a question! are you scared of your w, like if i say this what would be her reaction, would she leave, would she stay? im affraid that you are so scared of what your wife might or might not do that that you just continue to go as if. you are in a committed r with your wife right? she has told you that right. she has committed to you and your kids. then i guess i have to ask why are you affaid of talking to her about your marriage. it still needs fixed, and she is not really doing anything in regaurds to that goal. shouldnt you be asking yourself WHY? maybe you are, thats why you snooped. but my friend please dont be affaid of talking to her about your marriage, you have feelings as well and she needs to know those feelings
