Quote: Nobody makes anyone else feel anything. A relationship gives you a forum to feel what you expect to, and what you put into it. The partner can prevent feelings and give reason for recoil, but they don't create the feelings in you. Actions create feelings, not the other way around. If your W wants to feel this way about herself, she has to be willing to interact with you as this person she wants to be. There has to be a way that you can give her opportunity to express to you who this person is.
Yep. I see your point and it is well taken.
Quote: Again, the OM has little to nothing to do with it. He is an object that she focused her feelings and energy on. Maybe she obsessed about his qualities, but we all have qualities that can be adored or despised at our S's discretion.
You know I felt weird about posting all that "I wanna be him" sounding crap because I KNEW it's not what I meant but I guess I was just trying to say that there are thing about ME that I WANT to bring out more that are probably similar qualities HE had that encouraged her to be who she liked being with him. I hate that I made it sound like I am using that a$$hole as some kind of role model or something. Far from it, I am just acknowledging that she WAS able to feel a certain way with him, and she USED to feel that way with me so I want to get back to being that man I once was, that I WANT to be for my own sake AND the sake of the marriage.
Quote: Here's the thing - I don't think you need to change to encourage her feeling this way, but rather, I think you need to learn where you are DIScouraging her from being this person.
Yes. See above. I know that, and as I think I said in my last post, I think through my own soul searching and her conversations with me where she's opened up about what she like and does not like in our R, I am VERY aware of what prevented her from, well, feeling like a WOMAN in our marriage. This is really the essence of it all. She just wants to feel like a woman, a desired, admired, respected, loved, WOMAN and most of what I did in the past, ESPECIALLY since the kids have been born has not really fostered that feeling in her. Sure, I can't MAKE her feel something, but I can assure you that my behavior towards her over the years did nothing to help her feel like she wanted to feel and that's the sad part. It's not my fault per se but there are things I can change about me that WILL help, of this I am sure.
Quote: I don't know if I'm going farther off base by suggesting this, but I think that all the setting the mood stuff is putting pressure on her (in a sense - still more of the same). I wonder how much OM had to set the mood. To me, constantly working on her with physical affection is STILL saying "me man, me want sex" you're just more aware that the old way of saying "give it to me now" doesn't work. Maybe you can still be direct, but do it at different times. Give her something to fantasize about. Let her build up the expected experience in her mind, not think that she's going to have to give in and service you at some point. Have some fun with it. Don't stress yourself out about it either.
You know muddle, first of all, in the middle of all this, thank you for being here with me now. Your words are really helping me these days. In terms of this particular statement, I think you are 100% correct, which is why I am posting so much about this lately. I KNOW my "mood" setting and all the other more subtle things are not as subtle as I think they are. I think I am still pounding her over the head with my "need" for sex. I really do a good job MOST of the time of keeping it light and fun but as I alluded to the other day, just now, and as you alluded to, I think these things, light or otherwise, are still hitting her like a ton of sexual bricks and it's not really helping. That's just my instinct, which for obvious reasons, I don't necessarily trust these days.
I will take your advice though and when I DO do something, just switch it up a bit, do something different, maybe try being more direct again, etc.
Quote: If she wants to see you're sincere about your other motives, well then she just has to have sex with you and see how you act once you take that out of the equation. As long as she holds out ANYTHING you do can be seen as a means to an end, right?
I have said this before, but you put it into words again. This is something I FEEL VERY STRONGLY. How can she know my "intimacy" outside the bedroom is for real, i.e. NOT all about getting her into bed, until she gets into bed with me, so-to-speak, and then the intimacy continues? That is one of the reasons why I don't think it's as simple as her not trusting my sincerity. I think there is more to the barrier than that, and it's what I either have to wait out and hope she manages to deal with it on her own, or find out about and try to deal with it together.
Quote: Of course this is true, but finding that balance where you're patient but not complacent is difficult. I also think there has to be a time when you don't have to be so patient any more.
Yes, and I think one thing I have been pretty good at is figuring out when those times are in my sitch. So far, so good on that front. I hope I can continue to know where the balance point is and when it's time to tip in the other direction.
