Quote: How can you approach this from a different direction entirely? Have you explored the person OM made your wife feel like? I think this is central to why WASs continue an A - how it makes them feel about themselves, it allows them the opportunity to redefine who they are.
Yes, I have done this extensively. She has told me what he made her feel like and it SEEMS all tied to the passion aspect of their relationship (er, which BTW makes me think she STILL has not told me ALL of the "physical" stuff they did, i.e. sex). She said he was a good listener and though she didn't quite say it, I know she liked the fact that he was strong, both physically and mentally (or so she THOUGHT, until the end when he snapped).
Part of the key here is what we all have learned so well. Nobody makes anyone else feel anything. A relationship gives you a forum to feel what you expect to, and what you put into it. The partner can prevent feelings and give reason for recoil, but they don't create the feelings in you. Actions create feelings, not the other way around. If your W wants to feel this way about herself, she has to be willing to interact with you as this person she wants to be. There has to be a way that you can give her opportunity to express to you who this person is.
Quote: To the point that I can, in keeping with my PERSONAL goals of self-improvement, I have looked at the aspects of OM that are positive and checked to see if those are things I want to work on myself. Some of them are and some aren't. I can't become a muscle bound personal trainer over night, but I can focus more on my fitness, something I already wanted to do. I can't erase years of BAD listening skills but I can learn how to be better, something I knew I already needed to do.
Again, the OM has little to nothing to do with it. He is an object that she focused her feelings and energy on. Maybe she obsessed about his qualities, but we all have qualities that can be adored or despised at our S's discretion.
Quote: I guess I am saying that I have, through my own speculation and what my W has told me, put together a picture of what she was like with him and while I don't know if we could, or really, if I WANT to be like that, I THINK I understand how she wants to feel and think she can feel that way in our R too given time.
Here's the thing - I don't think you need to change to encourage her feeling this way, but rather, I think you need to learn where you are DIScouraging her from being this person.
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Quote: This sounds to me like a product of the lack of direct communication between you. If you were to have been more direct about wanting sex when you wanted it, and less indirect about setting up the mood (manipulating W into wanting it too) she might be less wary when you do these things without expectation. She might trust you more now.
No, that would be more of the same from me. . . she HATED that. She HATED that I stopped trying to seduce her or set a "mood" for her. . . She has clearly told me with no amount of subtlety that my "directness" about sex is one of the large reasons why she never wanted to have it. There was no mystery, no romance, no mood what-so-ever, just "Me man, me want sex." It's all part of the issues we have with virtually NO intimacy outside the bedroom.
I don't know if I'm going farther off base by suggesting this, but I think that all the setting the mood stuff is putting pressure on her (in a sense - still more of the same). I wonder how much OM had to set the mood. To me, constantly working on her with physical affection is STILL saying "me man, me want sex" you're just more aware that the old way of saying "give it to me now" doesn't work. Maybe you can still be direct, but do it at different times. Give her something to fantasize about. Let her build up the expected experience in her mind, not think that she's going to have to give in and service you at some point. Have some fun with it. Don't stress yourself out about it either.
Quote: One thing that I CAN do is talk in general about what I want and need in that respect, and I will do that sooner or later.
Maybe this isn't a bad idea, maybe it is. If she likes the whole pursuit game, this might blow it all. But it might also clear up a lot for you as far as her hang ups go.
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Quote: I would say that you should stop sublimating your desires and feelings and start expressing them
Actually, muddle, I think the opposite is the problem. I have yet to sublimate my desires and feelings.
Well, maybe sublimate is not the word, but I think you are well aware that your feelings need to be supressed in regard to your W, and this is handicapping you. You're making everything all about her, and this might be putting too much pressure on her as well.
Quote: dammit, the fact that I have not HAD sex in somewhere around 9 months clouds the picture a bit and makes it hard for either of us to believe my motivation is anything but a physical longing for sex.
The trickiest thing for us men is that we're willing to lie to ourselves about our sexual motives and trick ourselves into thinking that it's about something else. If she wants to see you're sincere about your other motives, well then she just has to have sex with you and see how you act once you take that out of the equation. As long as she holds out ANYTHING you do can be seen as a means to an end, right?
Quote: When I can step back and look at the big picture, like I did late last night, I KNOW things are heading in the right direction. I KNOW good things will come to me who waits. It's just those times when I am SO far into the sitch that the big picture is WAY out of my field of vision that I get lost.
Of course this is true, but finding that balance where you're patient but not complacent is difficult. I also think there has to be a time when you don't have to be so patient any more.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
