The Neverending Story...GH Saga Continues

[grasshopper]

Thanks everyone. The part that irks me the most, yet is most spot on is the "you think to damn much". This is true. Actually, I have really been working on that aspect of things. I think much less now, lol. Seriously, most of my thinking is done out loud, right here. I do manage to live mostly in the moment when I am at home.

I will try to respond to everyone...

She was passionate before and she didn't get that way by herself. You contributed something to that! Find that and you should be (in time) on your way.

Actually, not so much. As I have said in previous threads, she usually got into sex once it was happening but it was usually still all me. I KNOW that is because I rejected her attempts to take control or please me. Like I have said, there are complex issues and I really wish she would go to counseling with me but alas, she will not so I am going to try, best I can to work out my part of the intimacy issue and see if that does the trick. I think it might because I think if she trusted me not to reject her she may be able to open up and get back to at least the level of "passion" she had in the beginning of our marriage, and then from there, expand on it.

GH, how long has it been since you and W had any type of serious R talk? I know that it is not what we are supposed to do, but sometimes I think, even if it is just for selfish reasons, we need to lay our feelings on the table.

It's been awhile and I know we do need one but I am just choosing the time and place carefully because I really think this one could make a difference.

Maybe, the non-sex intimacy your W has been looking for comes from open, heartfelt expressions of love and needs, hmmmm I guess I am saying communication.

Interesting and probably true. OT has said something similar in the past. I will have to give this some...well, sorry deezee, thought.

We are the leaders, in a sense, because we have a lot more knowledge of these sitches than our spouses, we have been learning about ourselves and relationships and life. We have learned that by releasing control, we take control of our sitches, regardless of where they are. When do we get to release the control we hold over our OWN feelings? Granted there is a time and a place, but letting frustrations fester eventually breeds resentment, it's what our spouses did with us, it's why we became LBS's.

I agree with this 100%. At some point, things have to return to "normal" and we should get to just live in our R's.

I may be totally off base, so this is just for what it's worth. It just seems to be that you have been holding back for months now, I don't think it's unfair of you to ask your W what she needs from you, and tell her your feelings.

Yep, and that makes me feel two ways. One, that I SHOULD be able to open up to her,and two, that I CAN wait a little longer if need be.

I have told her my needs and feelings. The last time I did that she said "It's always about what YOU need isn't it?" That really kinda pissed me off and I said as much but didn't dwell on it. That let me know where she was at. That was a long time ago in the grand scheme of things so maybe now the response would be different. Who knows, but I am not going to speculate, nor make a decision based on what I THINK her reaction would be. If it feels right to me, I'll do the R talk.

When do you get to take care of your needs GH?

MANY of my needs are taken care of by me, my W and kids. That's part of the focus on the positive we talked about yesterday Mama. There IS a segment of my needs that are not being "taken care of" right now by my W but in our marriage, that is nothing new. It IS a dynamic that NEEDS to change, but since I believe it is THE underlying issue we have, I don't want to fall into the trap of thinking we can just make it right overnight, or even in a month or two. What DOES need to happen at some point is some real, open, honest conversation and work towards mending our intimacy issues.

There is also still that DBesque part of me that believes, as I said above, that simply working on me and learning more about my personal issues may be enough, without me trying to figure out what's wrong (or not) with her.

GH - Just a thought. Have you considered telling your wife that the stress of wondering "when" and "why" is killing you, and that from now on, you don't want any intimacy?

Yes, actually I have. I almost posted the other day that I think RB had it right when he cut out his W from his fantasies. I have given this some serious thought but what I really feel, beyond all the thinking and fretting is that my W needs time, time with me continuing to BE intimate towards her, i.e. the touching, etc, without sex in the picture to believe that I really want that and am not just trying to get her in bed. Then again, until I DO get her in bed and continue the intimacy outside the bedroom, she can't possibly know that's NOT all I'm after. Kinda a catch 22...how's that for overthinking. No, seriously, no matter how much I vent here, I am pretty solid in my plan. I THINK what I am doing right now is working and will ultimately pay off in the kind of M I think WE BOTH want.

At that point, do two things: Take charge of your time together by deciding when bedtime (together) is

Say what you want, but this does not work with my W. I don't "tell her" when bedtime is. Actually, this has been an issue between us because I used to do this all the time and it bugged the hell out of her. She said I was treating her like a child. Remember, there is a dynamic where she feels like I act more like her dad than her lover. If I could ENTICE her into bed at a certain time, then fine, but I will no longer try to "set" a bedtime for us. Didn't work then, won't work now.

In terms of the rest of your advice on taking charge and being "the man" of the house, I have done most of that already. I am now making quick, firm decisions, something that I NEVER did before, constantly deferring to her whims. I AM looking much better and taking care of myself. SO much has changed in the "being the man" part of me but alas, it is not enough to win her over...yet. Again, I think "they" say it takes time to have these things sink in for a good reason...because it does.

There is certainly no harm in waiting a little longer to see if your W truly just needs a little time. But, at some point you really may need to just tell her point blank that your M has gone back to the way it was pre-bomb and that you did not want to go back to that sort of passionless M.

Yep. This is the R talk that will happen next if something doesn't give.

Certainly you should try backing off--and that means no back massages for your W if she's not going to reciprocate with any physical or emotional intimacy in return (and I don't mean ML.) Maybe you haven't given her a chance to miss you--perhaps she is very much taking you for granted.

No, she IS taking me for granted but as I said (I think I did anyway), I am not ready to throw down the gauntlet just yet and make no mistake about it, it would be that to her. For me to stop my newfound "intimacy" towards her at this point would be immediately noticed and reacted to. I know that's probably what needs to happen and I am working towards it. It's just so hard because I DO see progress no matter how much I seem to post to the contrary here. Maybe that is my fault for not posting more of the positive, maybe it's my denial at not seeing the negative more, who knows.

Maybe you should find a way to go away for a weekend by yourself. Your W can have a chance to miss you and you can take a break from the roller-coaster. If you can't get away to visit friends for a solo trip, maybe you can find a professional conference related to photography or running a small business. That way you could learn something and have a chance to get away.

Actually, my "time away" is still an issue between us. I am still gone every other weekend for weddings and some nights when I have meetings to go to, etc. I think more time away would NOT help my situation. She misses me a lot as it is. Her wanting me around is NOT the problem, it's what we do or don't do when I actually AM around that is.

It's so hard to separate yourself when you're enmeshed by proximity and yanked around by her moods.

Sometimes, sometimes not. I would say for me, mostly it's pretty easy to separate myself, or detach from her moods. I have learned a great deal about that. It's not her moods so much I react to, it's the thoughts in my own head, and that's one of the main issues I am seeking to change in therapy. I have to stop obsessing over things that are only constructs in my mind. It's plagued me my entire life and I am working to try to live more in the moment than in my head. When I do that, things are MUCH better for me.

Thank you all for your support. I am going to re-read your posts and really think a lot about what you said, beyond my first impressions which I posted here.

GH