Is it love or is it guilt?

[matilda]

Shit, shit, and double shit again. You WILL NOT believe what happened.

We're home just long enough to put the boat away and get the motorhome. We take off first thing in the morning for New Mexico. I had to tell you guys this. I don't have much time before H gets back with the motorhome.

Saturday we were in Yosemite -- 300 miles away from home. After spending the day sightseeing with our kids and best friends, we had lunch at the Ahwanee Hotel. Some members of our party then wanted to go to the gift shop. H and I went and sat directly outside the gift shop (I had a migraine all day). I looked in the window and what to my wondering eyes appeared but the BITCH OW. (So sorry). I AM NOT KIDDING. She was standing right next to my best friend in the whole world!!

I just looked at my H and said, "did you see that?" He said, "what?" I said, "look in the window at who's standing next to Judy." You should've seen his face!! He grabbed me and said lets go get the car. We told our friends we were going to get the car and be back. It was a bit of a walk.

When we got out of earshot of our group, I went beserk. I accused him of still being in contact with her and telling her where we were going on vacation. He said absolutely not -- has not talked to her or e-mailed her -- had any contact since last October (and I knew about that). He was pretty shaken. He grabbed my hand and told me to ask him anything I wanted.

When we got to the car he wanted to know if I was okay to go back. By that point I'd calmed down and informed him that I would not let the fact that I'd seen HIS former lover in one of MY favorite places on earth on OUR family vacation ruin it for me.

Later that evening talked about the odds of that happening; how if we'd read it in a book or seen it in a movie we'd have said, "yeah, right." H said he felt like "somebody was trying to come between us."

Way too much to tell right now. I'm trying to believe him. Everything logical in me says this was a horrible coincidence. H swore that it was a horrible coincidence. By the look on his face when he saw her, it makes me feel he was really clueless.

Guys, how does this happen? We were 300 miles away from home for God's sake. Am I being a fool to believe him? On one hand I tell him I trust him; on the other hand I feel this is just too much of a coincidence.

I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS. I feel I've got to talk to him somemore about this. Great vacation, huh? More like a nightmare.

I've got to go. I'll fill you in more when I return. GEEZE, guys, aren't you praying for me out there? If so, somethings going amuck.

Matilda

[lily]

"It's a small world after all" takes on a new twist. . .

Mattie, do you guys always go to this place at this time of year every year?

During the affair could your H have mentioned this?

Remember how you went to her door and confronted her?

IF she had your vacation info (hey, could she have gotten your Hs vacation itinerary from some source at work???) then I could see how she would try to 'get back at you'.

20 20 hindsight would have you walking up and standing next to her with a lovely smile on your face.

Question: Are you going to let this incident eat at you or are you gonna let it go?????

If you decide that the 'ghost from the past' is doing this deliberately then you can make plan changes to keep her from these ploys.

If you decide to confront her, she'll think your crazy.

If you decide to blame it on your H where will that put your R?

************

I used to dwell on when I would wind up face to face with the 'woman in the can'. I think I've seen her in her car twice. Both times I was w Sage and he wasn't looking as she drove by us.

I will be in the same room w her when our sons graduate in June. She is now safe from me. I finally was able to give up on a claim for retaliation/revenge.

That's part of putting it in the past.

********

Matilda, please don't think I'm telling you what to do. Each situation is different. Part of me so wanted to do exactly the things you have done. These things would not have drawn Sage to me though so I had to let them go.

*********

Other than her showing up in the gift shop, how was the rest of your vacation. I'd love to hear about it!!!

[healedbutscarred]

As LILY says, "it's a small world"! Matilda,only you can decide whether or not your H is being honest with you. How well does she know your best friend...could she have possibly mentioned to the XOW about the vacation? Or as LILY mentioned if you go there every year maybe the "B" remembers or found out through someone else. When we went to the place where my H met the XOW 3 times and she never showed up (and this was supposed to be her "hang out") I'll be honest and admit tnat I wondered if my H had still been in touch with her and "warned her" that we'd be there. I felt terrible thinking those things when I was supposed to be starting to trust but I couldn't help my thoughts. I started to tell him my suspensions but things were going so well,I couldn't bring myself to mess things up. It does seem a very very strange "coincidence" that the XOW should turn up at the same place at the same time on your vacation. Frankly if she did it on purpose,she must have been asking for trouble after the way you confronted her last time. Not sure how I would have handled it but I know,like you,I would have questioned my H about it. It was only natural to assume he had told her. You say he did honestly look as surprised as you that she was there so only you can decide if that was real or "acting". As "unforgiving" of himself as he has been,I would tend to think that he has had NOTHING to do with this "B" and that somehow she found out and decided to cause trouble. DON'T LET HER CAUSE TROUBLE!!! You have come so far and have made such great progress,I'd hate to see that "B" set you back!! I know it was a real shock to see her but please,try to have a good time on the rest of your trip!! Let us know what goes on and how things went the rest of the trip.
I'll be thinking of you and continuing to send up prayers!! PAT

[matilda]

We have cancelled our vacation.

No, we do not go to the same place on vacation every year. She would have no way of knowing H's vacation plans.

Yes, I do believe him. He has not has contact with her. He did not tell her where we'd be. This is absolutely the truth.

However, unfortunately, there is another OW in the picure -- apparently has been since before the other one was out of the picture.

I got up this morning feeling very much that something was not right. You all know I've been saying this for months. I am ashamed (but not very) to say that I broke into my H's office VM and there was a message for a woman saying how much she loved my H, how she missed him so much, how he filled a hole in her heart, blah, blah, blah.

The shit hit the fan, needless to say. Now, my boys and my parents know what an ass he is. People are devastated. It is an extremely ugly picture that is sure to get uglier as time goes on. I tried so hard to protect everyone from this. I failed.

The OW is someone H has known for 35 years -- a "family friend." She lives in Ohio, folks. He has not seen her in 30 years. He has only spoken to her on the phone and e-mails. Yet, he thinks he "LOVES" her. Yes, she is married. No, she has no kids.

All this time of going to the MC, telling me how devastated he was about what he's done, and wanting to make things work out between us was all a lie.

I, of course, called the OW (come on, guys, you know me!!). My kids were in the room along with my H when I called. Shocked the hell out of her. Told her a bunch of stuff. I can't bring myself to go through that right now. She, apparently, called my H's VM about an hour later -- now this was interesting -- said "Matilda and H (real names, of course), this is ..... I don't have your home # so I had to call this #. I need to talk to Phil." Why would she call H's office VM and address a message to the both of us?

Anyway, we've been trying to call her back all day -- no answer. Now, the line is busy (off the hook). Don't know what she has to say. But, I'll be listening cuz H agreed since the message was addressed to both of us that I could.

So, after all that I've gone through to try and keep this M together I find that in the end it was all for nothing. I begged him in the beginning to not put me through this again.

I'll not go into much more now. I drained. I'm in pain. We've been talking all day. We talked about some really deep hurts we've given each other and where it all stemmed from. At one point I said, "I can't believe the Matilda and H story is really over." He said, "It's not. It's not." But it is, guys. That was the last straw. I'm done.

He kept reaching for me during our talking; asking me to lay down next to him; wanting to rub my shoulders; just seemed to want to touch me anywhat he could.

Nothing to get excited about there. The answer to my question of "Is it love or is it guilt" is definately guilt. He was only doing those things because he was hurting me yet again.

My kids are devasated, but handling it much better than I'd imagined. I think they're in shock. Besides, for the immediate future nothing will change much. The boys didn't want their dad to leave, even though I'd asked him to leave many times this morning. H is sick, so asked if he could at least stay tonight. I said yes, and that he could take a couple of weeks if he needed to figure out what he was going to do. I didn't have the heart to make him leave when my boys asked if he could stay. They did tell me that it was my decision; that they completely understood if I made him go. They said it was all about me now, and they'd stand behind whatever decisions I made.

So, my friends. I guess it was not in the cards for this to be a success story. This is just too much.

My H is lost. He doesn't have a clue what he wants. What a miserable life he's destined to live.

Mattie

[lily]

Matilda,

All I can say right now is WAIT. I'll be back when things slow down here.

Chin-up, Lady!

[lily]

Matilda,

Don't do what I did and spew to your kids. Get those emotional boundaries up fast. Our C told us it was ok to say the parent's were having problems.

Watch how your kids manifest this news. Our Daughter was totally pissed; our Son became the quiet good child.

++++++++++++++++++

Matilda, with the long talk I guess you and your H were able to lay all the cards on the table.

How long had he been communicating w the H.S. friend?

Agape
Phileao
Eros

All kinds of love, Matilda. Can't have eros for a 30 year old memory. Doubt it was agape. Think Matilda.

Your H is not respecting boundaries. He may not have learned how to do this.

Do you ever read Hurting Badly's stuff? She goes by the name of Heart's Desire now. Her threads are located in the MLC forum.

Matilda, I am at a loss as to what to say.

I have to go at it from this perspective.

Before, when there was a PA you and the inner child had to deal w it.

Ok. Now, with a sorta EA , is the adult Matilda firmly in control?

If so, then you are where you're supposed to be in dealing with this SITUATION.

Your H has to deal w issues. You draw him forward by your growth; you send him back if you haven't made the changes that you need to make.

Sounds like this is a bump, not the end of the story.

You make your boundary re relationships w other women. He has to deal w his integrity and the growth of his understanding.

Oh, friend, I just want to encourage you to wait. Let this situation come into sharp focus.

If he's doing a MLC then he's doing a REPLAY. The things they do don't make any sense.

Please go read HB and ISE Guy for some perspectives on that , please!

[healedbutscarred]

((((((MATILDA))))))..I wish I knew what to say to you!! All I can do right now is offer you my love and support. I'll be here when you need to vent or just talk to a friend!! I know right now you are hurting deeply and thinkgs are looking dark. It's hard to understand why your H has done this and I honestly don't blame you for calling her (don't blame you for checking his VM either..after all he has given you every reason not to trust him!!). You had started focusing on YOU before so keep that up!! YOU have to take care of MATILDA and do what is best for YOU!! I know the children are hurting too and they are probably confused and at this point not even sure what they feel for their dad. They are old enough to understand what is happening and what he has done to you and to the family but it is important to not say nasty things about your H to them. They know wheta an A** he has been at this point!!Everything I have ever read says that even though you are bitter and in pain and want to call your H every foul name in the book...do it away from the children. I wish we lived closer together...we'd go out and get DRUNK!!!! Hang in there hon....YOU ARE A CLASS ACT and A TRUE LADY and YOU DESERVE BETTER THAN YOU ARE GETTING!!!!!! Take care of yourself and know in your heart that you did everything possible to make a go of things and it is your H that destroyed it all!! MY THOUGHTS & PRAYERS ARE WITH YOU!!!!! I AM HERE IF YOU NEED ME!! Email me if you'd like ([e-mail])!! PAT

[tbone]

I am pissed for you and have both sympathy and empathy for your sitch. We want them back so badly, mostly because as human beings we need them back and quickly. We forgive quickly partly to help satisfy our own needs. What to so? "Punish" them and push them away (potentially to OP) or take them back and risk the same pain twice or more? That is a tough one that I am not able to answer for anyone, especially myself. If you figure out a way to "punish" them but also satisfy your needs please post. I can't be the only one who goes from standing on my head for my W to eanting to stand on hers.

TBONE

[matilda]

My family is in crisis. I stayed up until 3 a.m. this morning talking with my boys. The pain is so incredible now -- the shock is wearing off.

I do believe my H is in a full-blown MLC. He is the most confused, miserable person I've ever seen. He is just now fully coming face to face with the consequences of his actions.

I have not thrown him out -- for the boys sake. He is in the downstairs bedroom. Last night (and all of yesterday) we talked and talked. He kept reaching out for me. This morning when he heard me moving around upstairs he came directly up. Then he started the vomiting thing again -- remember, like just before the bomb last October. I started to cry because I can't stand to see him in such agony. Stupid, stupid fool that I am.

He then came back and laid on the floor. I told him it was okay to lay on the bed. I didn't say a word. He started talking about how F&*%ed up he was and how he just didn't know how to fix things. He had taken an anti-anxiety pill because his nerves were shot and he was trembling all over. He felt like he was going to vomit again and was trying to hold the pill down long enough to absorb into his system. I started to stroke his face and hair to try to calm him down long enough for that to happen. He told me my touch has always been special to him and very soothing.

Gotta go. More later.

Mattie

[lily]

you seem calmer. I have no answers you will find a way . You are going to be one stong lady when you get through this. Your H has got to face his issues.