Rachel...My H met OW when he was out of town on a golf trip. He was very depressed and unhappy and went out with some of the guys to a club and he danced with some women and I guess struck up a conversation with this one particular one. They stayed in touch by email for about 6 months before he ever went back to where she lived (a "golf"trip he told me). The PA began then (Nov.2000). He saw her once that month,twice in Dec. and once in Feb.2001. (these were "golf" trips too ha-ha!!)Anyay I discovered the A in March of 2001 and he called her with me on extension and broke off the R. Told her he had never stopped loving me and still loved me and wanted to work on our M. He did however,stay in touch with her by email (because he said he felt bad he had used her and hurt her and when she asked if they could be "friends" he thought it would be ok and wanted to not hurt her anymore...DUH-H guess he never thought that if I found out I'd be hurt more!!). I found out and told him to decide what was more important...being "nice" to her because he felt bad about hurting her or our M!!..told him I could NOT deal with her being in his life in ANY WAY. He stopped and I have had no reason to believe he has had contact with her since (no more "golf" trips to her area !!) Things are really going great with us!! We are going away this coming Sunday for a couple of days to celebrate the 34th anniversary of our 1st date!!
Matilda....what's happening? Haven't heard from you in several days. Hope you are doing ok!! Let us hear from you!!
I've haven't spent much time around the board lately, and when I am here I've mostly just been reading and trying to stay caught up on some people here. I go through periods where I'm just played out. I don't want to think about all this stuff. I want to forget I have a reason for being here. When I get in that mood I have nothing to offer, myself or others, so I simply don't post.
I was also riding the hormonal tidal wave the past few days and was feeling very negative. I wanted to wait until that passed before posting because I feel like people must think I'm nuts -- one minute I'm riding high, feeling positive, and the next I'm thinking that my H is right, I DO deserve better than him.
As far as H and I go, things are still pretty good. Had another "episode" of things not working right in the intimacy dept, and that kinda brought me down, too. The thing is, when that happens H still tries his darnest to make sure I'm "happy." Didn't work for me either, though. And, I just didn't feel like faking it for the sake of his feelings. At least this time I kept my mouth shut. I didn't try to analyze what was going on -- didn't ask him questions about what he was thinking about or anything. He appologized and I just kissed him and said good night.
If you knew my H you'd know why this affects me so much. He's always had a very strong libedo. For him to tell me now that his libedo is low is very difficult to get used to. I feel strongly that this stems from his guilt. He feels he doesn't have a right to be with me. He can't seem to get over that. I fear that if he can't get passed his feelings of guilt and humilation, we are doomed. This is just so stupid. HE can't forgive HIMSELF for what HE's done and THAT may be the cause of the demise of our M.
When I get on my hormonal rollercoaster I start plotting how I'm gonna "fix" him. Sounds like revenge, but I think of it as shaking some sense into him. The scenario goes like this: DB the hell out of him for the next 3 months (just like I've been doing). Make things so perfect he'll think he's living in paradise (been trying to do that, too). Never bring up the A or the OW again (haven't). Come Oct. 1 (1 yr anniversary of bomb), send him an e-mail at work telling him I need a few days away by myself to decide how I want to proceed. Tell him I've been thinking about how he said I'd be better off without him, and that I've come to realize he's probably right, etc., etc. And then actually leave for a couple of days!! Maybe leave him with the impression that there's somebody else in the picture.
I know. You don't have to tell me this is bad DB'ing -- not to mention very risky. But knowing my H as I do, I think he's gonna need a good shaking up to bring him home from his pity party. I've spent so much time since the bomb assuring him that I was gonna stick with him through thick and thin that I think it's given license to stay stuck in his self-pitying, "I'm such a bad guy," role. I think I need to bring out the territorial part of him -- the jealous part of him.
Does any of this make sense? Am I way off base here? Feel free to try to talk me out of this. I know this could backfire badly on me, but so far being the loving, forgiving, understanding little wifey has only seemed to rack my H with more guilt and shame.
All that being said, things go on fairly normally. We have 2 nieces and a nephew staying with us for a couple of days (H's sister's kids from Florida). So, that means 5 teenagers in the house (6 when you add my S's GF who is here all the time). Hectic, but their constant laughter is just what I need. Oh, to be young again without all this crap to deal with. H is coming home from work early today so we can take the kids to the lake on the boat waterskiing. We leave for vacation on the 26th. So, busy times.
HI MATTIE! It does make you feel good having a house full of young people to laugh and talk with. I remember those days from when my boys were growing up. AH,YOUTH!! Everything you said makes sense! No one would here would ever think you were nuts (but I do understand you feeling like that..been there a LOT of times..and still ocassionally feel like I must be a little nutty!!)!! You are a very strong woman and you have held it together wonderfully well but you are HUMAN (remember telling me that a few months back ?)!! It is natural to have those feelings. My H has been working nights again for a few weeks and his hours are horrendous..he's worn out half the time and there are a lot of times when he is just mentally and physically whipped. I do understand (refuse to make the mistake I made over a year and a half ago by acting as if it is his fault he has to work so much!)and most of the time I really honestly do understand but then every once in a while that little "voice" in my head decides to see if it can cause me some trouble and makes me think things I shouldn't !! I work hard to ignor it but at times I feel a little sad. But it doesn't last long. You know your H better than anyone and you have to determin what is the best course of action for you and your R. You have DB'd him to death and it has not gotten you very far so I understand that you feel the need to do something "drastic". Yes,it could possibly backfire but at least you would know for sure where things stand. You have reached a point where you have to do whatever it takes to "wake" him up!! Sometimes all they understand is a "blow to the head" !! You think about it and then do what YOU feel is the right thing for YOU!! Let us know how things are going!! Your Friend,Pat
I know, long time no hear from....I didn't drop off the face of the earth (go see Ultreya's thread).
I am sorry to hear about the libido thing, I thought it was just me. My H used to not be able to get enough of me. That slacked off when the kids were born-we both chalked it up to being too tired (which it was), he also has on-going chronic back problems (life-style from being Airborne Ranger) so we chalked it up to that (and I guess it was that too). Now I'm wondering, here of late, if guilt is at work on him....not that he'd ever tell me. H is the kind of guy that wouldn't say sh1t if he had a mouthful. Thank for the insight there. Or am I too sensitive? He did just get the Big-V about 10 weeks ago.....or was that guilt too? Course, even if it was, I'm taking that one after what I went through during child-birth....his turn!
As for your plan, it sounds good to me, but just be careful on how much of a kick in the butt it could give him. It may be too much. I sure wish I had the guts to have done that-or could still do that....but he has NO idea that I still entertain the idea of D (fleetingly tho)(is that a word?). I pretty much caved straight away. At least that's how I see it. I disappointed myself in that one. But because I never had to explain a separation to my kids, I don't regret it.
Anyway, yeah, I ask myself if I love him, really love him, or just stay out of guilt. He says he loves me, often, as do I....I guess far as he's concerned, "alles klar" (sp?) but it's still nothing like it used to be...but then what ever is? Everything changes. Change is perpetual. (that's too deep...I'm too tired to elaborate....)
Anyway, just wanted to say that I'm still thinking about you....and everyone else too....
L
p.s. it's 0400 here, been up all night-H is TDY-have to get some sleep, will try to log in tomorrow and get around to a few others I want to drop in on......
Well, we're getting ready to leave for vacation tomorrow. First, we'll take the boat to Bass Lake (near Yosemite), do some waterskiing and some hiking. I love Yosemite. One of my favorite places. We come back on Monday, throw a few things into the motorhome (have already been working to get it ready), and take off for Carlsbad Caverns (New Mexico) and a few other places. H and I love traveling in the motorhome -- kids do, too. That's what made the investment worth it -- so many wonderful family memories.
I've been keeping up on everyone's treads. Still just haven't felt like posting much. Firstly, because not too much has been happening around here to post; and, secondly, I just don't feel in a place to offer anyone else advice. I would like to try and post a few replys before I leave, however.
Things are still going pretty well at home, at least on the surface. In fact, if I didn't "know" all that I know, I'd think we were a strong, happy, in-love couple. Sometimes I forget that we're not!!
H continues to do small thoughtful things that make me feel loved. Example: the other day he went to buy oil for the motorhome and also bought me a flashing red reflector and a water bottle for my bicycle. It's those small gestures that let me know he's thinking about me and really warms my heart, ya know.
He asked me to buy him some socks when I was out the other day. I did, but I also bought some lavender to spray on his pillow to help him sleep at night (someone told him a few days before this might help, but he hadn't gotten it for himself). He was very pleased that I'd remembered he wanted to try it and went out of my way to get it for him.
We're both trying. Or, maybe I'm incorrect to use the term "trying." I feel it was just natural for him to think about what I needed for my safety and comfort on my bike, and the same for me with the lavender to help him sleep.
I've backed way off in the intimacy department -- for two reasons. First, I felt that perhaps I was putting too much pressure on H. He's trying to deal with his feelings of self-loathing and not deserving to be intimate with me. Consequently, things seem to be getting better for him in that area. Only once in the past 3 weeks or so has he not climaxed. Because things are improving for him in that area, his desire seems to be on the upturn again.
However, that brings me to the second reason I've backed off. MY desire for HIM is dwindling -- rapidly!! I feel a shift in my emotions. I feel like I just don't care anymore. Maybe I'm just burned out. All I know is that I feel kind of numb about everything to do with OR. Even thinking about the A stirs up very little emotion in me right now. Oh, there is still a small bit of anger at the disloyalty and the lies and deceit, but other than that I feel rather emotionless.
For that past year I've been experiencing more emotion than I've felt in my entire prior 48 years . I've never been so hurt, experienced so much pain, been so scared in my life. Feeling nothing right now feels good!! But I know this can't go on forever. I don't want it to go on forever. I want to feel loved by someone, and I want to feel love for someone. I want that "tingly" feeling back. It scares me to think those feels may not return for me towards my H. Right now my "true self", my very core being is telling me I will never experience true love with my H again because of his betrayal. This was what I was afraid of from the beginning. This is what I've fought against since the bomb dropped.
Pfroglady said in a reply above that "you know your H better than anyone." The scary thing is, that I obviously don't know him at all. That was a hard lesson to learn. I loved the person I thought he was. I'm not sure I can love the person he turned out to be.
With all that being said, I will forge on. Lily said in a reply to someone -- not sure where -- that she won't be the cause of the end of children's universe. That is the way I feel right now. They are my reason for continuing to work on OR right now. Last week #2 son said he might not go on vacation with us cuz he's taken so much time off work already for all his other excursions. That made me so sad. I told him (without thinking first!!) that this may be our last family trip and that he really needs to come with us. He asked me why. I said, well, you just never know where we'll be next year. He said, "Oh, mom, we'll always be a happy family." I've gotta keep trying to pick up the pieces of this mess for their sake.
Just some more random thoughts:
H always kisses me good-bye in the morning (I'm usually still in bed asleep). This morning I was awake when he kissed me and he asked if I was coming down. I said yes. I went down a few minutes later and he'd fixed my coffee and had it waiting on the kitchen counter. When he left for work he kissed me again (always on the lips). I gave him a full body hug to go along with the kiss.
H has been at work for 1/2 hour and has called me 3 times -- mostly just to update me on stock prices and give me suggestions of where to put my IRA money, but at least he's thinking about me, huh?
Everytime I go out the door he tells me to be careful on the road. I do the same for him.
He still makes comments that make me think that he thinks I wish him harm. Example: the other night he was hanging his bike up (puts it on hooks and raises it to ceiling of garage -- very high ceiling in garage), it swung loose and almost hit him. I didn't see it. H told me about it. I said, "Geeze, could've hit you in the head and killed you!!" H replied, "Just what you're hoping for, huh?" He makes comments like this all the time. Once he told me he lays in bed at night thinking he's gonna open his eyes and see me standing over him with a knife in my hand!! WTF!! Also, said in the past we'd (kids and me) would be better off if he were dead.
We tell each other all our problems and successes concerning work. I always ask about his day. He always asks about my day.
He continues to make his time and whereabouts accountable to me. I've told him it isn't necessary. However, something comes to mind -- a few months ago he was telling me that having to account for his time and me not trusting him (he acknowledged that this was all his own doing -- wasn't blaming me) made him feel like he was in prison. I told him at that point that I didn't NEED him to check in with me all the time; and that perhaps he could look at it as a loving, considerate thing to do instead of a punishment. Well, he continues to be accountable, so maybe he's trying to show me he does love me and wants me to feel safe and secure.
I realize this post is very disjointed and probably doesn't make a lot of sense, but that is exactly how I feel right now. On one hand it looks like I'm trying to look for proof of my h's love for me (cuz he can't say it right now), and on the other hand I'm expressing my lack of any emotion regarding my H right now. Well, that's not exactly true. I do feel a bond of friendship with H -- a bond of shared parenthood. Anything else, I just don't know right now. Perhaps as I said above, I'm at a stage of emotional burnout. Too much emotion in the last year. Perhaps I need to NOT feel anything in order to refresh myself in order to start feeling again. Here's a flash -- maybe that's exactly what my H is going through!! Emotional overload causing him to not feel anything. I think I might be on to something here. Maybe we both need a break from our emotions. Maybe we need to stop trying to force the issue and just "be".
Sorry this was so long. That will teach me to not post for a while!! I'll be checking in here the rest of the day then we're off for vacation. Please pray for us.
quote:Originally posted by matilda: Things are still going pretty well at home, at least on the surface. In fact, if I didn't "know" all that I know, I'd think we were a strong, happy, in-love couple. Sometimes I forget that we're not!!
Don’t you see? You feel natural doing things for him, and it feels natural when he does things for you. He does small thoughtful things.
Thoughtful.
OK. He has issues that he’s trying to deal with. But the fact that the plumbing is working better is an indication that he’s starting to work things out.
Hang on to your desire. Foster it. I don’t know how. To be honest, the same thing’s happening to me (losing it). But your H’s desire is on the upswing. Don’t get into a seesaw of he’s up… you’re down… you’re up… he’s down. It’ll drive you both crazy.
Pfroglady is right. You know your H better than anyone. Perhaps you’re setting the bar a little high on what that means. No-one. Not even ourselves knows us perfectly. You loved the person you thought he was. Well, Mattie. He is that person. Despite his faults.
I think the self-loathing that you describe is caused because his actions didn’t reflect the real him. That’s hard to deal with. It’s also hard for him to deal with the fact that you think of him in terms of his actions – especially his faulty actions rather than the real him.
How lucky are we to have a person like Andy around to not only put things in great perspective but also to rise above his own diificulties to do it? He gives us great encouragement and a great example. You are amazing Andy.
Thanks. There are a lot of positives, I know. I guess I'm just not at a place where I care a whole lot right now. Hopefully, vacation is just what I need to renew my spirit and resolve.
Believe me, I'm trying to hold onto my desire. I don't know what else to do at this point to keep it alive. Sorry to hear you're going through the same thing. You are a treasure. Someday your wife will understand and appreciate that again. I know the wait is excruciating. I'm sorry.
You are always in my thoughts and prayers.
TBone,
Not taking anything away from Andy, but you've also been quite helpful to me. Your attitude of "be happy and enjoy your S today -- don't worry about the future" has given me a lot to think about. It makes a lot of sense to me. Been trying to implement this attitude myself, but as I'm sure you've read, my PMA is pretty much nonexistent right now. Not that I'm feeling down or unhappy, just not feeling much of anything.
Sounds like you're making progress in your R. I hope that continues. I'll be looking to catch up with you when I return.
As with all my other friends here, I'll be keeping you and your W in my prayers.
Actually, I'm calmer now. I guess W is trying to appreciate me. That's why she says she's going to get physical tests, and see a C.
She's said things like that before, but she sounds more sincere this time.
But you, Mattie...
I think you have the makings of that all-elusive state of normality. I think it's kinda good that you're not in a place where you care a whole lot.
The problem with desire is that it's not supposed to be work. If you're working at it, it has kinda unpleasant tones to it. You're just supposed to desire, and enjoy the object of your desire.
So don't put too much pressure on yourself, Mattie. Just lie back and day dream from time to time. Dream about your H wearing nothing but black socks with those sexy garters you see from the 30's.
MATILDA... HOPE YOU HAVE A SAFE AND HAPPY VACATION!!!! I'll be thinking about you!! Maybe this will be really good for both you and your H. Just relax,enjoy and take it a day at a time. Sometimes when you are "away" from the daily routine things look different and sometimes you can put things in a whole new perspective. Let us know how things go. Will be waiting to hear about your adventures !! Pat
![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon}
!!) Things are really going great with us!! We are going away this coming Sunday for a couple of days to celebrate the 34th anniversary of our 1st date!! ![[Frown]](images/icons/frown.gif){kind=icon}
![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon}
?)!! It is natural to have those feelings. My H has been working nights again for a few weeks and his hours are horrendous..he's worn out half the time and there are a lot of times when he is just mentally and physically whipped. I do understand (refuse to make the mistake I made over a year and a half ago by acting as if it is his fault he has to work so much!)and most of the time I really honestly do understand but then every once in a while that little "voice" in my head decides to see if it can cause me some trouble and makes me think things I shouldn't ![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif){kind=icon}
!! I work hard to ignor it but at times I feel a little sad. But it doesn't last long.![[Embarrassed]](images/icons/blush.gif){kind=icon}
tbone! Gosh! you too, Mattie!