Is it love or is it guilt?

[healedbutscarred]

You are right Montana...everyone's M is different,everyone's R is different and everyone's views and definitions of love are different. Some people go a lifetime never experiencing that "tingly" feeling and some people feel it for their mate forever. I still get a thrill when I look at my H or whenever he takes my hand. Some people may wonder how I can still feel that way after he cheated on me but all I know is that I do and it makes me happy. I lost it for awhile and so did he. But I am happy to say it's back. Does he get it? I really don't know but if he doesn't that doesn't mean he doesn't love me. All I know is he seems to like holding hands and snuggling and cuddling (even at our age !!) The A scared us both and we have talked about how we both felt at the time and how we never want to feel that way again. Everyone has to do whatever works for them and their R. No one can know what it's like until they've "walked in your shoes". I don't think there is one meaning of LOVE...I think LOVE is whatever YOU feel it is. Even if your definition of LOVE is different from your S,that doesn't mean he/she doesn't love you. It's how you deal with the differences that matter. I think LOVE gets "comfortable" after so many years but the trick is to not let it get so comfortable that you start taking each other for granted (I think that's what my H and I did for awhile). Now we realize that and we do things to keep it from getting "boring" and "hum-drum" !! Matilda,I am really really glad to hear that you are happy and that you are working on YOU!! I think you are a teriffic lady and I also think that you are strong and you are headed in the right direction. You keep making Matilda happy!! pfroglady

[tbone]

Montana,

What I meant by comparing M to a "business" partnership is that you expect "equal" contribution and you wouldn't simply walk away from a large "investment". I will always give 100% to my M but my expectation of my W has become less. We "function" very well as a couple but I don't expect love from her. It would be a large bonus but I can live with "equal" contribution from her. My gut tells me that she does love me but is afraid to recommit to the M for fear of being hurt. Similar to a business partner who is afraid to invest more capital for fear of loss. Also, sometimes a partner has to "take over" the business if the other partner can't pull their weight. This is where I feel I am at. I will continue to carry most of the burden if that is what it takes to make the p-ship florish because then we both benefit. It isn't "fair" but it is what I have to get to me "goal". This is what I mean with the business p-ship comparison.

TBONE

[ANS]

Hi All.

I hafta say that IMHO, love is more important than equality.

I have a "business" relationship with W. We co-parent, and lord knows S#2 is a full time job all by himself.

I do what I can. W does what she can. Is it equal? I don't know. It's not important to me as long as I know I'm doing my best.

But does W love me? I see some evidence of respect, but does she love me? Does she even want to love me?

Matilda... Whether or not your H loves you, he wants to love you.

In the long run, he'll succeed. Where there's a will, there's a way.

[tielbeagle]

My H fell out of love with me, well he won't even tell me for how long. This from a man who frequently told me ILY up until he dropped his bomb in feb. I always had that tingly feeling for him. I think I always will. We are still married. For 19 years now. Never separated. No OW. I took him for granted and abused his love for me. I became a real bitch to live with. He never knew what mood I'd be in when he got home from work. No way for a husband to live. He nearly D'd me. Said he decided not to so that our 2 teenage sons wouldn't have to go through that. Could have been originally out of guilt I guess because he didn't want the kids to be divorce kids. Not because he wanted to start over with me. Such pride. I guess he had to save face at that point. I said I didn't want to live in an affectionless/loveless M. He said he wanted to work on that. He is demonstrating baby steps. I have decided to become the wide I should have been for years. In fact I'm trying to be a girlfriend to him more. DB'in techniques work. I can't help feeling that one day he's going to say to me that he can't do this anymore and wants out for good. that's my insecurity. But I try to have a PMA at all times. My goal is for him to love me again. even if he doesn't say it. Maybe he does now and is being cautious. I don't blame him. I burned him. But I've learned. Boy have I learned. Lisa

[matilda]

I think all of us here on the BB have learned a great deal of how we contributed to the mess our M's are in. Well, here's a newsflash -- we're not perfect. We're human. We've made mistakes!! Whatever mistakes I've made in my M, I certainly did not deserve for my H to seek relief from his unhappiness in the arms of another. Thing is, he agrees! That's partially why he's so disgusted with himself still. He doesn't try to place any of the blame for his A on me; doesn't try to justify it. That's of little consolation to me.

Anyway, that's water under the bridge. Right now he questions whether he loves me and is committed to me. I know this stems for how he feels about what he's done; how much pain he's caused. That's his problem. I question my own love and committment sometimes. But, that's usually when I'm letting my hurt pride and bruised ego take over my more rationale thinking.

It's been 9.5 months since he dropped the bomb and told me about the A. He still makes sure I know what his schedule is, calls when he gets into the office (so that the called i.d. shows his office number), calls when he's leaving for lunch, when he returns from lunch, 2-3 other times during the day to just "check-in" with me, and always before he leaves the office to come home. I told him months ago he didn't need to do that anymore. I think he likes "proving" his trustworthiness to me. Would a man who didn't love his W and care about her feelings do this every day?

We are doing all the little things for each other again that we stopped doing long ago. We're both much more considerate of each other and both trying to be more affectionate. He still seems a little ackward around me at times; still can't look me in the eyes for more than a fleeting moment; still doesn't want the lights on when making love -- in the past he'd usually light a candle -- now doesn't want me to look at him during intimacy. That's probably my fault. In the beginning I'd tell him I was picturing him and OW together, and then would start crying my eyes out. Couldn't help it. Not gonna apologize. He put me through hell. But now I have to let him know that's not going to happen anymore. I'm okay -- and getting better and better.

So, in either case, whether he's being loving and affectionate because he does really love me or because he just doesn't want to hurt me anymore, I believe the outcome will be the same because when you act lovingly, you start to feel love. And, like Andy said, at least he WANTS to love me again. I think that's the key that opens the door. You have to want those feelings again.

I'm not sure any of this makes sense right now. I have a migraine and it's kind of hard to think. Sometimes I just need to put down random thoughts I'm having, especially because I don't want to bombard my H with all of this stuff.

Matilda

[tielbeagle]

Matilda, I think all of what you said makes sense. I agree that when you act lovong the feelings follow. My H is acting lovingly and I do believe he is starting to come around to me. He told me in the thick of our falling out when he spoke of there being no hope for us that he wanted to be in love. I took that to mean just not with me. Well, that was 3 months ago and now I truly believe there is a chance for us. Good luck to you. Lisa

[healedbutscarred]

You made a LOT of sense!! It sounds like you are doing all the right things and headed in the right direction!! I am so PROUD of you!! You have really worked at your M and I think that down inside your H knows that you are special and I honestly believe he loves you,cares about you and admires you!! ANY MAN WOULD!!!! I totally agree that I had to assume some responsibility for the condition our M was in when my H decided to cheat. But just because I had made some mistakes,he didn't have the right to turn to someone else!! He was unhappy but so was I...difference was I didn't try to escape the problems or try to gain a little happiness with AP!! I tried to explain to my H that I could and did forgive him because I do love him UNCONDITIONALLY!! I honestly don't believe he really understands that concept but that is his problem. As for me,I will continue to love him unconditionally and do what I can to show him. We too started back doing the "little things" we had stopped doing and that made a BIG difference in our R. You just keep doing what you are doing Matilda!! You sound good and you sound like you have found the key to your happiness. I think about you often and check everyday to see if you have posted. Take care and I will keep you and your H in my prayers!! Your freind,Pat

[matilda]

Tielbeagle,

I've read a little of your story. What a true testiment to how one person make such a dramatic effect on another and on your R. I've become a true believer in "acting-as-if." In the beginning I used the technique for myself -- to help me get over the worst part of the aftermath of learning about my H's A. Now, I'm using the technique in order to help my H get over the aftermath of his A so that he can begin to forgive himself. It certainly seems to be helping us both.

Good luck to you and your H. It sounds like another success story in the making.

Pfroglady,

Well, I think I'm finally at the point where thoughts of the A are actually rare and insignificant. Who'd of ever thought it? I can finally say, just like you, that things are getting better and better -- at least for me. I think they are for my H, too, but one hard lesson I've learned through all of this is that I really don't have a clue as to what's going in my H's head!! I'm just trying to go by his actions at this point, and in that respect I really can't ask for much more.

Things have been pretty good in the intimacy dept. It's been a week since he had a "problem." With each "success" he's gained a little more confidence that the next time will be good, too. Consequently, we haven't gotten a lot of sleep this week

Last night there was a trailer for the 11 o'clock news that said "What people whose M's are in trouble should know." H was standing in front of the t.v. and I was in the kitchen. He turned to look at me with a funny look on his face. I just laughed. I walked over and put my arms around him and asked him if he thought our M was in trouble. He couldn't look me in the eyes (that's one of my goals -- to get him to be able to look at me again), but said, "Do you think it is?" I just laughed again and hugged him and said, "Yeah, can't you tell." I asked him again latter if he thought the M was in trouble and he said no. However, like I said before, at this point I can't really believe his words, just his actions.

We stayed up to see what it was that people in troubled M's should know. Someone had done a study that showed people who are unhappy should stay together because: 1) Divorce doesn't make people happier, usually causes more problems that it cures; 2) D usually causes more depression than it cures; 3) Situations that are causing problems in the M will usually change at some point, (i.e., job/money problems, etc.), and there was something else, but I can't remember. All things we DB'rs know already!!

Happy weekend to all!!

Matilda

[healedbutscarred]

Sure sounds like things are getting better and better for you and your H!! I was so happy to read that there has been a lot of ACTION going on!! You have really "been there" for your H and you have handled things so well. I know there were times when you felt helpless and felt things were hopeless but you "hung in there"!! You refused to give up!! Your H is a VERY LUCKY MAN!! Things have been really wild around here for several weeks. My H's job has changed for a while and he has been working nights and will work nights for awhile longer. It has been a "test" for me. One of the problems I was having "pre-A" was the long hours and not enough time spent with me. I am proud of me ..I have shown him that I have a whole new attitude and I show him that I cherish every moment we do have together and I make the most of them!! He tells me and shows me how much he appreciates it. Before I bitched and complained about the hours and I was always ticked off when I cooked a great meal and had it ruined because he didn't call and tell me he was going to be late. Now I just "go with the flow"..I prepare things that I can keep warm or heat up. But he also calls me now! It's all "give and take"..we both share the responsibility for the condition of our R "pre-A" and it was up to both of us to put things right. Of course I feel he had the most "work" to do because he royally screwed up when he decided to betray our vows!! I am so happy for you that things are going so well. Keep me updated.
PAT

[RMC]

Profroglady- how long of an affair did your H have? Boy, alot on this thread rings true for us. I took advantage of my husbands love,and did not think I needed to do the "little" things for him-heck I was barely doing the big things. He swears through the whole affair he never stopped loving me, and even told the Bimbo that when she'd ask. Sorry-we've been together forever-since grade school-she can't begin to compete with that, or with the Real me which is wht he's seeing now. It's hard and sometimes you want to go back into old bad habits..but you have to rememeber....what looks attractive to them? Well I know and I'm showing him. Now if I can just rid myself of this anxiety disorder I'd be ok. I'm working on it..Rachael M.