I've found that though DB/DR puts names to certain techniques, sometimes people use them intuitively without knowing they're "acting as-if", "doing a 180", or whatever.
I started DBing long before I ever heard of it.
Your W seems to have started DBing a couple of months ago.
Part of the DB arsenal is going dark. We all must go dark to some degree as we work our way through our feelings.
It would do your R no good at all for you to hear about her misgivings as she works her way closer to you. So, you have to stand on the sidelines and watch her emotional roller coaster.
Just love her KAW. That's all you can do right now.
Thanks Andy, I agree that "...sometimes people use them intuitively without knowing they're "acting as-if", "doing a 180", or whatever..." and have made reference to such many times. I have even noticed how the roles reverse when people on this board express their doubts at their partner's change in behavior...(myself included).
But it shock me to hear her express the very same kind of insecurity I've have been struggling with every day ever since the "bomb" back in Feb. If they go dark, it becomes very difficult to hold your own imagination in check as to why they are withdrawing. One cannot help but wonder if it is a repeat of earlier behaviors / thoughts? Enough! I do try not to dwell on such.
Andy, I did miss your absence from the boards. I have gleaned much insight from your postings and do welcome you back. You haven't posted much about your sitch recently except the kinda cryptic one on Lily's thread. I do hope you doing well.
Kaw-what your wife did threw you off guard. Is this what they do AFTER they are distant and cold and all the other crap we put up with for months on end with them giving us just enough hope to make us hang on? DO they do these 180's that I hear people talking about and can't beleive them because they have waited so long for them that it does not seem real or that it will last? What snaps them into this? Is this ususally the beginning to the end of our nightmares? I'm waiting for some of these 180's from my H, and I know it will seem unreal to me and I will wonder if it's just guilt becasue it will be so out of character. Now that I have heard about it so much I will know its for real and I will be very HAPPY when he starts! Rachael
Haven't been absent, KAW. Just haven't had time to be very active. The way things are going, that's probably the way its gonna be from now on.
As to me, thanks for asking. I don't remember being "criptic", but I guess things aren't too bad. I just don't have time to go to any lengthy explanations.
Besides, the whole sit is a bit "cryptic" to me too, so what can I say?
Rach, We are going to have to wait for the answers to come from someone further down the process than we are or discover them ourselves. This is my first time journeying into this frontier myself and I'm just as confused...
Hopefully, some more experienced DB'er's will drop by and give us some insight on this...
P.S. Tried posting this before, but somehow it seem to get lost... Just one of those days I guess...
In my inital post, I breifly mention my oldest D (now 17 yrs) had moved out of the house in Jan. with bad blood between us and because of the bomb my W dropped in Feb., I chose to put R with D on the back burner to work on M. As part of DBing in May, I decide to make first contact with D to try to make things right again. Over the summer, my W joined in and sloooowwwweee we have been piecing the R with our D. Up to now, we have been initiating contact to see her. Last Monday evening, Tarah (D) called and said she wanted to take us out to dinner on Wednesday to celebrate my Bday (was last Sunday).
Well the forces of evil in the universe threw everything they had at us last night. First after picking up D, we headed to one of our favored resturants. We ended up waiting an hour for our dinners. When they arrived, my oldest D's dinner was cold, my W's was over done, my youngest D only received one chicking strip as a portion. To make me feel guilty, mine turned out fine Despite our efforts to keep our youngest calm during the wait, but by the time dinner was served, she upset herself enough that she couldn't eat. Have way through dinner she had to run to the restroom. My W had to follow her in and couldn't finish her dinner. Upon the manager declining to speak to us, we left without paying. On the way to take oldest D "home", I stopped at a gas station (the little gas light was on). All the lights were on, the cash register was open, but no one was around to reset the gas pumps. Really freaky!! This was the final straw that trigger on of my W's panic attacks and she insisted I take her straight home! When we got home my W told me to take Tarah home. When I asked if she would be alright while I was gone, she nuzzle up to me and started crying. Tarah called a friend to pick her up. Before she left, she said we will have to attempt to go out to dinner again soon.
When my W & I went to bed, she just snuggle into my arms and said, "I just love you sooo muuuuch" So what is the first thing that popped into my head ... "just 4 months ago, you insisted that you loved my but was NOT in love with me and now the pendulum swings the other way...how can that be!!" But with the amount of insecurity we both been feeling lately, I decided I needed to do a 180 here, and I just replied, "I know" and let the last words be of her stating her love...before she fell asleep. Sheeesh, I REALLY don't like it when these thoughts just pop into my head ... just when do we truly start to believe them again?
"When do we start to believe them again?" Well, isn't that the question of the century .
How about this: I find out one morning about H's EA (had PA last year). He tells the kids he doesn't love me like he should (told me that a month prior). Told the kids he wasn't sure he wanted to be married to me anymore (also told me that a month prior). I told him to leave. He wanted to stay until he had some place to go. I asked him if he'd be willing to stop talking with the EA while he stayed in our home. He said he wasn't sure. I told him that was unacceptable and that he had to leave. He stayed. We talked for 48 hours. Yes, just two days later he's asking me to give him another chance; that he does love me -- always had, always will; and that, yes, he will give up all contact with the EA.
So, yeah, TWO DAYS!! How do I believe that? I guess I believe it because of his actions. Unfortunately, I still get those same ugly thoughts that you mentioned. They'll go away eventually -- they have to, don't they?
My dear Mattie, your post allowed me to have a revelation of sorts. Please bear with me on this as I attempt to put my thoughts into words here...
In my first attempt to respond, I was still at a loss for an answer to our common question and wrote the ole cliché that only time will tell us the answer. That in this respect both you and I were in the same boat drifting in a fog. Who knows ... perhaps we might cross paths with Lily's canoe. (Sorry, still had to work that into this posting. Before you know it, Lily will have this whole board sailing the high seas. Lily, if you happen to read this, please keep in mind that imitation is regarded as the highest form of a complement.)
Anyway, my home computer lost the message and I didn't have time to rewrite it again.
Later, I couldn't help but continue to ponder for an answer while my W slept beside me. I started thinking how it was the darkest just before she told me she was falling in love me again. June 1st, she made the entry in her journal about how she just had to get away from me. My snooping in her purse the following Monday lead me to discover she had collected phone numbers for Family Court, Child Support, etc, that by Thursday I decided to see a lawyer expecting to be served with papers any day. That same day is when my W later said she decided to consider work at M again. The following Tuesday is when she told me she is falling in love with me again and wanted to come back to M.
How could she turn so quickly? I remembered how she once told me when she first knew she I was the guy for her. We first met by working on the same shift at work. We were part of the same group that would go out for coffee at a Dunkin Donuts every night after work. After several months, one night I set up a telescope in the parking lot to show them the planets and such. She told me it was that night she decided I was the kind of man she would like to live with for the rest of her life.
Then it hit me ... the reoccurring statement through out this board - "Love is a decision." A decision based on what it is about us that they are attracted to and then they are fully committed to that decision.
What altered that commitment? The subtle shift in our behavior until we are no longer the person they were attracted to. Then they begin to doubt their decision to love us. The more we continue our unattractive behavior the more they waiver. Eventually, they change their decision. Unfortunately, for some of us that may mean an EA or PA.
What brings them back? Changes we make in our behavior as we consciously attempt to improve ourselves. This may reminds them of the old us they were attracted to or even better perhaps as the "New & Improved" us. Once they believe that changes are for real, then it is not such a large step for them to decide they can love us again and commit to it again. For my W it took a little longer than a week for her to process this on her own before she came to me to talk.
Mattie, the fact that you & H had a 48 hour OR talk, allowed you to help him sort this out in record time and allowed him to make that decision and commit to it. Mattie, that was such a unique blessing in disguise. Most people on this board would give anything to have an opportunity for such an OR talk.
Now how can we believe their commitment to this decision is for real and we can trust them? [Racheal, this is what you been asking for...] As long as we continue to act in the manner that is true to ourselves and attracted them to make the decision to love us again, then they will never have any reason to doubt the commitment they made to that decision.
Thereby breaking the previous cycle and IT WILL NOT BE REPEATED!
This is why DBing is for life!!!!!
WOW ... alot to absorb and its late and I hope my fatigue didn't diffuse the meaning of my words. I hope it makes sense to you all ... goodnite.
Kaw-Awesome post. So many answers to so many questions! It goes with our C session last night when we were talking about what Adrian wants. He wants to be able to talk to me and have fun again; He said I used to like to do fun things. His example-going for walks, going for bike rides, going for drives.I did not say it but he also was the one that stopped wnating to do those things. I would ask and he would say naw, I don't feel like it-its too cold or whatever. I think my personality had changed though alot. I was depressed and moody alot. I would give him the silent treatment. It took its toll on us both. He started talking to the OW about his discontent. I don't know how long it took to turn into a PA and I don't want to know. Just knowing is bad enough. In C I told him I needed him to reassure me without me having to ask. I think this is what Mattie is talking about when she says restitution. It's them-of their own free will telling us what we want and need to hear from them in order to beleive they really are where they want to be-with us. My H says he has not done it because he is afraid to bring the subject up-that I won't let it be after he tells me he loves me and I can trust him and he is here to stay. He's afraid of the "what ifs" from me or " "you left this out, what about it"? The C explained to him that by him avoiding me in this manner he is keeping us from intimacy and giving me the assurance I need so I have to keep asking him. Its a catch 22 she said. There was alot more she said and I hope he got it. I think he is still skeptical about me changing-I have-alot, but he is not to the place KAW where your wife and Matties H are. I hope one day for him to shock me with his words just like your wife did you. I told him last night that I want to be the girl he marrried. He said I act so sad alot. I'm not sure where he is getting that from because around him I am very upbeat and NOT moody because I know its one of the things that drove him away. I think in his mind he is afraid I will go back to being that way. Maybe he does not fully believe my changes yet, and so they are still real to him. He just wants to have fun and for me to be in a good mood. I can do that, but its been hard rebounding from a realization that my H has just had a 2.5 yr affair. I cannot dwell on that anymore though because it only serves to hinder my cause which is to have us back better than we were before. His needs are still a moving target too like Andy says. One day he wants this and another he wants that. It's hard to be all they want us to be. He might take some of his own advise and talk to me a little more or make some plans for us to do something fun. Suggest things. He's still acting out-flashing I think Lily calls it. Doing stuff out of character for him. Smoking, not wearing his seatbelt, growing a beard-I don't know why he's doing these things, but I know I can't act like his Mother and tell him to stop just becasue I don't like it. I'm hoping when he comes fully to his senses about us he will about those things too. I can handle him acting out with those things better than I can with the OW. C asked him about her last night. He maintains there has been no contact. I told her I asked him for his itemized cell bill for the last 3 months. She said that probably would go along way in helping me beleive him and that if he started talking to me telling me that I can trust him, ect., I wouldn't need those things. SO...we left it as we are BOTH going to make the effort to do things DIFFERENTLY (C has not even read DB or DR, and she knows what we have to do! She's good!) She said don't wait for the other one to do it first-it doesn't matter-just do it! I was very open in telling him my needs-I need us to be a team, the way we used to be. To want to be together most of our free time. The C made sure that Adrian spoke his needs and had me mirror them back to him until he felt heard. I know you know what I'm talking about when they do the distance thing and your left with this feeling of dread in the pit of your stomach wondering where thier head is and what they are really thinking because they aren't telling us! That's what I want to go away-I'll know by the way he talks to me and acts when he is out of this funk he's in. He's trying to work his way out. He knows he wants to be with me but a part of him just does not feel present. IT's a little different for me. He is not saying he does not know if he wants to be with me or he is not sure he is IN love with me. It's more of an unspoken thing. He tells me he loves me, and I beleive him but a piece to his puzzle is missing and he is trying to find it. I am helping all I can. I hope he finds it soon! Sorry this was so long! Rachael
If they go dark, it becomes very difficult to hold your own imagination in check as to why they are withdrawing. One cannot help but wonder if it is a repeat of earlier behaviors / thoughts?
Up to now, we have been initiating contact to see her. Last Monday evening, Tarah (D) called and said she wanted to take us out to dinner on Wednesday to celebrate my Bday (was last Sunday). 
To make me feel guilty, mine turned out fine 
(Sorry, still had to work that into this posting. 
Before you know it, Lily will have this whole board sailing the high seas. Lily, if you happen to read this, please keep in mind that imitation is regarded as the highest form of a complement.)