Sorry to leave you all hanging, I'll try to recap what happened since Saturday night.
While my H was gone I called my girlfriend who knows of my sitch. She may not be book smart but she has ALOT of common sense and supports me no matter what decision I make. She is the one that advised me to start getting my ducks in a row. I reacted emotionally to the sitch. "That's it, it's over" Well, call me a doormat if you will but after I calmed down I realized that I DO NOT want this marriage to end and have seen the potential for so much good. Anyway....
H came home 2 hours later. I called to him from the living room and said if you have a minute we need to talk. He calmly said ok that he would be right there.
He sat on the couch next to me. I started out by saying M: I love you but I don't think I can do this anymore. I have decided to go see an attorney on monday. I am going to put S4 into kindergarten and look into before and after school care for all the kids. The way I see it we will have no choice but to sell the house........(more but I can't remember) H: I don't want a divorce. I don't know what's wrong with me. Maybe I am having a MLC, I don't know. I'm just so tired and angry all the time. I love you guys and I could never to that to the kids. I don't want to F them up. It just gets me mad that I have to ask you permission if I want to go out with the guys for a few drinks after work. M: For one, you don't have to ask my permission, all I ask is for a little respect. Believe it or not, I get excited when it's time for you to come home, I love spending time with you and then when you don't come home and don't call I get really dissapointed. I want you to have friends. I want you to be happy, I don't want you to get up, go to work, come home, go to sleep and start all over again the next day. I would just like you to give me a call letting me know what is up. H: I know but I feel like if I call you, you are going to give me crap and make me feel guilty for going. M: I'm sorry you feel that way, I guess it is part of my P/A personality and I will definitely try to work on that.
The convo went on for about an hour, in the end I felt like I still didn't know what he wanted from me. I said "So you want to stay married, you do your own thing and I do my own thing and we don't have to answer to eachother anymore?" H: No not at all. I'm just so tired and angry all the time. M: Do you want to talk to somebody about that? H: No, I don't believe in counseling and I don't like talking to people. M: Let me ask you something and please be honest with me, Is there anyone else involved in this equation. H: No, absolutely not.
If I remember anything else of importance that was said I will update.
The rest of the night went fine. I made him dinner and we watched TV.
Sunday was business as usual. Big family breakfast. H went rollerblading. Cut the lawn and washed the cars together. Then we went to get H a new bicycle and took our S4 out to lunch. Came home and went for a bikeride, sat outside then watched TV. He was sweet and kind to me like the day before never happened.
So.....armchair analysts, what do you make of this?
I am more and more convinced that this process is made up of a bunch of work followed by a series of "turning points" or times when we LBS have to make a decision on either blind faith or very little supporting information, that may not agree with DBing or advice we get. I think we see this all the time in sitches where someone has a R talk because the just can't imagine waiting anymore, against the advice of the board, and it works out well.
I am not saying that this is always the case (it working out well that is) but I think what I am saying is that for me personally, I have had to take MANY leaps of faith in my sitch, the biggest of which being the ring this weekend.
Each time I do things like this, I KNOW it could backfire on me but I also know that I have to DO something, or at least actively recommit to waiting.
In your sitch, I think you are seeing these "turning points" too. You reach one, think it may be THE one, and then it turns out to be just a member of an ever expanding set of personal crucibles where your resolve is tested.
I felt from the minute I read your H's harsh words to you that he would retract them in some way. I also knew that it may not matter too much to you. Now you are at one of those turning points, a place in the sitch where you have to once again take stock, and then take a flying leap, really based on faith alone.
You know you can't trust him, so remaining in the R with that as a requirement is probably out. Do you take the leap of faith that more DBing and trying to work on things despite his probable lying will work? Do you take an even bigger leap and assume he's telling the truth?
Do you continue to proceed with the legal stuff, getting ready for D even though he says he doesn't want that? Will that force the issue and make him come back harder or push him away? Does it even matter to you? All leaps of faith, each option's outcome murky at best.
What I am saying Mama is that at our points in the sitch, there comes a time when I (and mind you, this is a BIG projection of my personal feelings shaped by my recent events) think we have to trust ourselves again. We spent SO much time learning NOT to trust ourselves that it doesn't come naturally anymore, but I think in order to end up at a place where WE can feel like we were true to ourselves, we need to make personal, rational decisions that reflect who we are/have become in all this.
I know you don't want to be a doormat. I also know you want your marriage to work. Furthermore, you know that being a doormat will not likely make your marriage work now any more than it did in the past. So don't be a doormat. Doormats just lay there and let whoever comes in the house step on them, wiping all their dirt and crap on them as they pass over. Don't take on that dirt and crap. You can still let him through the door but make him take THOSE shoes off before he comes in.
I can't tell you what to do. I am NOT angry at all by your assertion that you may want to continue with what you've been doing. I have never considered you a doormat and would not now if you simply did nothing new. YOU have to decide what's right for you and I firmly believe that if you make that decision and own it, it CAN'T be wrong because you know what? If we know and understand that these decisions COULD result in going forwards OR backwards and make them anyway, with full acceptance of the potential consequences, then we've done all we can do.
It's NOT making a decision and accepting what HE decides "should be" as the status quo that I think makes you a doormat, and I don't think I've ever seen you do that mama, and you won't start now.
I am really glad you are ok. I was worried about you. Please take care and let us know how things are going when you have the time. I fully understand NOT posting as much, lol, so don't worry about it.
I think this could be a "turning point". I think the whole divorce talk really slapped in the face. He probably did not mention OW because he thought you were/are on the verge of a divorce and mentioning the OW would push you to that.
IF you want your marriage to work, I think he needs to know that you know about the OW and will stick with him if he leaves her and have the wonderful marriage y'all both want.
When I read your situation, it just seems like a crazy cycle. Something has to break that cylcle IMO.
I also think it is important that H feels safe to make mistakes with us. We will still care about them. Nothing changes. I hope to give that message to my H when he begins his cycling and work on himself. I do not expect him to break it off with the OW completely right away. I am seeing too many men behaving in this pattern. I still think it is important that they are allowed to make mistakes with me and still be cared about. Holly
Bomb 1/06 D dismissed 11/07, attempt reconciliation. Premature. Divorce final October 31, 2008. OW looks like bad history. Over. Still hopeful. Baby steps. In R with my X.
100% agreee Holly. I think you see that by how I am approaching my sitch and the ambiguity of the OM sitch. Making W feel safe to come back fully into the M, on her own, according to her schedule is important to me, and I think mama too. That's not to say we'll wait forever for them to get on board, nor should we. I know I won't.
Quote: When I read your situation, it just seems like a crazy cycle. Something has to break that cylcle IMO.
Ok, I also agree with this. It IS a CRAZY cycle.
He won't admit to OW because he KNOWS that will be it for me. He knows I am ready to make a move, in either direction. He KNOWS I am strong enough to do it.
So, what I have decided to do is to continue on this DB path I have chosen. I know some of you will think, there she goes making empty threats to H and never following thru. I am sorry, but this is just something I have to do.
I will make a conscience effort to not be so "controlling" and maipulative with H, kids, family and friends. This was something I was working on with my counselor (when I was going). Any book reccomendations on this subject?
Thanks for all the concern and advice. I know I must sound like a lunatic loving him and working on my M one minute then getting a D the next. Believe me, I DO NOT want a D. If that is how my M will end it will because H files for it, not me. I have faith that our M can be saved. Hopefully, my H comes to that realazation soon too.
(((MB))) Ahhhh, sweetie. OK, breather. You did GREAT. Remember that, first. You had one heck of a weekend, and you had an awesome conversation.
You are NOT a doormat. You are patient and giving great consideration to a very big part of your life, your M. There's nothing wrong with that. You are, however, setting boundaries for yourself, and making your own mind at what you believe.
My insight:
* I think H's anger at being questioned is his guilt turned outward. He's feeling angry at your questions b/c he KNOWS he IS doing something HE is not comfortable with. I think your recent (last few months) change in attitude is flipping on his guilt within himself....the fact that you are not questioning him, you are not angry with him, you are sweet, kind, don't blame or withdraw in the face of knowing what he's doing is turning his own guilt on. Before he was running away from the "bitchy" W, now he's facing his own guilt. So, keep up what you were doing. Accusing him will get you nowhere.
* I agree with Holly and others. People make mistakes. They are entitled to that. I'm not saying you have to jump to forgive, just accept that he's human and be a little compassionate, which you HAVE BEEN.
* He may be right on about his MLC. Don't refute that or anything else he says about how he feels. He's thinking now, he wasn't before. His words show introspection, reflection and even self-awareness. He's confused and hitting the bottom.
* He says he's angry all the time and tired. He's turning the bend on his double life, on his quest for "happiness." He's seeing it's not all that it was cracked up to be. He's not angry at you...he's angry at himself, tired that he's spending energy on a life he does not want anymore.
* He's gonna feel like a real loser soon (read what JokerMan says about how he feels). So, it's ULTRA important now that you don't accuse, or do things to make him feel that way. It will come on it's own, and hurts more when it comes from within than from you. He has to go through that phase.
* He's rounding the bend, going through a process. It will have more ups and downs, and take a while, and DO NOT INTERFERE with the process. Simply turn aruond, live your life, draw boundaries for yourself. look at many here who can tell you that what your H is going through is his alone. Let this take it's natural course.
* I suggest, that though you have gained your strength and center, you STILL pursue many of the items on the list. See a lawyer (I did and it was good for me). Get the job (we talked about this before)...or enhance the one you already do out of your home, get serious about it. Open your own account and start putting a little $ in there for YOU. Start getting savvy about finances, how can this be bad regardless of how things turn out. Get out more and live YOUR life. Get the kids into programs so you can have some free time or go for the job. These are things that are good for you, regardless of how the M turns out. You don't have to tell H, rub it in his face, or do it to get back at him. Do it for yoru own empowerment. This is YOUR life, start taking control of it.
* Now, more than ever, detach from H. I really think that his crisis is coming to fruition, and you need to detach. No expectations, no pressure, nothing. Be caring, loving and all that, as you would to a friend.
This conversation, his outburst and everything is a GOOD thing. It means he's not happy with his life, and how HE is leading it. He sees you as a good woman he left for what he thought was better and he's kicking himself for it. He's lashing out at you, b/c he wishes you were STILL the b*tch he painted you in his mind to be. He has feelings, maybe not the right ones, but it's not indifference. Something is going on inside of him....so don't think that he's happy with how things are going in life, happy go lucky with his life.
Now is the time, more than ever, to regain the sanity in your own life, and let H work through his.
Thank you Always for taking the time to post all that you did. I was thinking of you when this went down and wished that I had gotten your phone number so I could have called you. I went thru the storm and I am ok.
I will re-read your post because I really think you hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what is going on and I really need to let H figure it out WITHOUT any pressure from me.
Last night we were sitting in our backyard reading. I finished my book so I went in to watch a little TV. I didn't say anything, just left him out there. When he came in he said "you know I don't really have much time to just sit and relax like I just did and I was looking around at our beautiful house and yard and thinking to myself, I am so lucky" - See, he's not all bad and I see this as a definite positive sign
