Jokerman, I don't know who you are or where you came from but you came at a perfect time in my life. Thank you so much for helping me see things from my H's point of view and for giving ME the clarity that I need.
Mamabear...aka...Ms. grin and bear it...aka...Strongbear
No need to thank me Strongbear. Trust me this is helping me too.
I made a big selfish mistake. I think there is a certain stigma with affairs. It think they are misunderstood as only sex. I think shedding light on how they happen and what keeps them going will help the other side (LBS) have a better plan and understanding.
All I can hope is that I help a few people along the way in my healing process, and prevent others from making the same mistake I did.
Yea Mama, I am in your corner. I may not have been a few weeks ago, but now, since I am at a relatively similar place in my sitch (who woulda ever guessed that, lol...mirror images we are) I think you did the right thing and as far as it being DB, well, as with my recent convo and feelings, there comes a point where continuing DBing is really personal and can help in keeping OUR perspective while moving forward with the new M, but I don't think it applies any more when it comes to R talks or being assertive.
I think you and I are at the point where we should not be afraid of asserting our desires and letting the chips fall where they may. It's not that I don't care anymore, because it's possible I care now more than ever, it's just that I finally have compassion and empathy for my W. I finally KNOW this is something she's just doing, and not to me. No matter how many times I have said that to other people, it took this long for me to see.
Will there be horrible days in the future for us Mama? Sure there will, but I think you and I are getting to the point where we are finally closer to being who we really are than ever before in our marriages and will not sit by and subjugate that for this crap anymore. For me, that means I can actually be CLOSER to my W because I don't need to know she'll be there forever. I don't NEED to believe that everything will be ok. I know it will be and that's because I will choose for it to be so, even if that means it will only be ok between me and my boys.
Mama, you have simply chosen to BE ok, whatever that means to you, and you let him know where you stand, calmly and without anger or accusation. It's just out there for him to do with what he will, and as far as you're concerned, that may be anything but what it WON'T be is to control you anymore by hiding behind a layer of supposed ignorance as to the potential results of his actions.
Mama, you and I also know that we care deeply for our spouses and marriages but there comes a time in all this when we have to let go. I think you are actually a step farther than I am in that respect, but my mind, heart and actions are right there with you and it really feels good. It does NOT feel like giving up at ALL somehow. In some way, for me at least, I finally see how by holding on so hard, I never really gave into the process. I was holding on AND holding back because I was afraid to get hurt again. It's only now, once again having little to no expectations, that I realize that I was mostly afraid of hurting myself because her damage was already done. I think we are freeing ourselves to experience life again and take risks because it's REALLY hard to take risks when you are holding onto something you think is a lifeline.
So, I am in your corner Mama, because I am finally, completely in MY corner too.
Quick question and I think I may already know the answer but would like others opinoin.
After all that has been said and done, what do I do when he gets home today? Act like I have been acting, like a loving person, wife and mother and go on my merry way? Bring up the conversation, which to me seems like a bad idea - pursuing/too controlling?
I think it may very well just be that even though my W talked a lot about OM the other night, I still don't "feel" him in my sitch like you do OW in your's, so I am ok with just "being" with my W. I don't have the urge to act in any way other than how I want to act. I THINK I have let go. I THINK I have. I am not sure. Time will tell.
What I am saying to you is that maybe you just you BE a loving person, wife and mother and if he chooses to make one of those things meaningless (hint:wife) then that's up to him but you will continue to BE those other things no matter what he does. Embrace that.
So, when he gets home, you just be who you are and let him be who he is. Accept that about each of you and let go of the expectation that it will be any different...today.
Thanks GH, once again I knew I could count on you.
Quote: So, when he gets home, you just be who you are and let him be who he is. Accept that about each of you and let go of the expectation that it will be any different...today.
That is what I was thinking of doing. I don't know why but I am a little anxious. All he wrote in his morning note today was "I love you people!!!!!!", I don't know if I am included or if it was directed towards my kids only.
I don't like to rock the boat, but I did so I quess I have to live with the consequences.
Ok, Mama, I am only still here today because I wanted to leave you with this...
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, we learned to have compassion for our WAS, right? It was one of the major catalysts that allowed us to DB so "well". If you're like me (and we know you are), as soon as things took a turn for the better, somehow you forgot how to do that. I know I did.
While I have let go, in doing so, I realize how much I had stopped being compassionate and empathetic towards her. In my mind, each little thing she did to NOT live up to my expectations "hurt me" and thus I had no compassion for her. She was hurting me again damnit! I thought she stopped doing that...er...oops... actually, what maybe would have been better to think is I thought I had finally moved past needing her to make me happy and expecting her to be responsible for living up to the expectations in my head. OMG, I was THAT guy again and you know what, she was THAT woman again, neither one was someone I ever expected to see again.
Once I figured that out, once I realized that as much as she hadn't really changed or moved very far from where she once was in terms of the OM, I had not really moved on from where I was, as the victim, the person who was having things DONE to them. Now I see where I went wrong, and can also see her "wrong" but I don't need to fix it.
Yes, I am at square zero again and this time, if I manage to leave this square, I hope never to return again.
I'm out for the day...didn't really mean to be here this much. Good luck Mama and just be yourself without worrying so much what he thinks about it.
Quote: In my mind, each little thing she did to NOT live up to my expectations "hurt me" and thus I had no compassion for her
Ditto. I think I am also guilty of this. Hopefully I now have some clarity. On Jokermans' thread there is a link to The Dairy of an Affair. This has helped me tremendously to find compassion and empathy for my H.
I want more than anything for my marriage to stay together. I don't want to be here anymore unless it is to offer advise to others going thru what I went thru.
I have to admit, I'm scared though. My heart is racing. I gave him an ultimatum and I'm afraid he will run for the OW because with her there are no problems, with her things are great. I'm not afraid to be alone, I fear losing the love of my life.
Good thread, Mama. Good going last night, you calmly and authentically told H what you felt, without doling out resentment and anger and judgement (well, maybe a little with OW).
When I first detached, I didn't turn a blind eye. In fact, when H came home late, I cheerfully would say "I didn't make dinner tonight, b/c I thought you would be out with your friend....did you have a good night?" It was my way of saying, I know what you're doing, I'm not stupid. I cannot control you, but I CAN control MY life and be happy on my own, doing my own thing.
I also did my own thing, I would stay busy when H came home, and I stopped trying to be perfect, instead making changes I wanted and in a sustainable way (I stopped cooking fab meals each night and went to only nights I wanted to)...I started really taking care of myself (working out, eating right, reading, laughing alot) and being happy. I was confident and acted strong. It was hard, but it was my way of saying that I would be his friend, expect nothing, but also not be a doormat. That way, his charade was over, but I didn't cause a fuss, let him do what he needed to.
It made him come out of his tunnel (only to go back now), but it worked. I have also heard so many here say that when they really let go, that's when the spouse started to make small changes to come back. As Joker puts it, the thrill is gone when the S knows what you're doing, and you're still able to do what you want....it's like saying "yes, you're an adult, you make your own choices, and you're choosing a bad one, and it's not fun anymore." They don't have to put up the charade that they are being faithful, b/c we don't care....we are fine without them....don't NEED them for our happiness, peace of mind, whatever. We're not a wreck and don't need to be deluded.
It's a way of setting your boundaries too. I have also read so many here post (including former MLCers) that when the spouse resists, it prolongs the exit of the A/MLCtunnel, whatever they're in. But, not resisting does NOT mean you're a doormat and accept what they do, it means that you let go of control, set boundaries and move on with your life, happily! It's a concept that OT wrote a lot and that I just recently understood (about boundaries).
When people say it's like dealing with a rebellious teenager, it's right. You have to let them go through this (like Joker said), that means letting go...you're not withdrawing love, you're just giving a tougher love by giving boundaries (not rules)....for YOU, that could be telling your kids to ask their dad where he was when they ask YOU. Or telling your H that he needs to talk to the kids b/c they were asking where he was, and since you have no idea, it would be best he tells them what he sees suitable, he is their father. That is a consequence of his behavior. For me, I stopped making excuses for H at social things...I did not go to "represent US" as I once did...I boldly told people that I had no idea where he was, whether he was coming. It got back to him and made him feel a little uncomfortable. Even now, with out separation, he is VERY bothered that others know, but I am open about it. I will not shelter our life for his sake...it's what he wanted after all.
Mama, I have to take you back a little. We hear from you all the time that H comes home late, and different reactions you have (good ones), but we're not hearing a lot of regular PMA, GAL from you, or things you're doing for YOU that are different. What are those things?
