You may very well bring the lurkers out in the open Hairy. But I would say that is because you are naturally witty and funny and that people like that. It makes people pull for you.

Also, shortly after I joined here, there was a thread going on where it started to get very flirtatious and you were the one who spoke up and said something to the effect that, "Aren't we here to try and save our marriages?"

I respected that and have followed your sitch since.

But man oh man... Is your wife a hard nut to crack.

BTW, what would be the difference in you stating to her, "you are going to have to have a physical relationship with me for a while before I feel comfortable doing x"

It really shouldn't be this hard. I know that is not what you want. Heck I am sure you just want a loving relationship with your wife where the physical aspect of a marriage is just a normal part of it. Something that both partners have an interest in doing.

I know I can't offer you any real advice from a success standpoint as I am two weeks away from final D.

But I can say that after I moved out, rather then getting any kind of reaction that would have showed me that my wife was going to do any kind of introspection, all she really showed me was how correct my move was. She is now "the woman scorned" and come hell or highwater, she is right in her absolute vision of what should have been.

Our SL had become so strained and her participation in it was such a chore, duty, pitty whatever... That I also had issues with the PE that you have described.

One thing I can say now with certainty is that it was due to my mental frame of mind. I have now, finally, experienced what it is like to be with someone who truly wants to be with me. What a difference!

I have kids as well, 19, 15 and 9. This was the toughest part. But for myself, I thought that as long as we both love them unconditionally, they are better off not having all the conflict in the house that had become their home life. And besides, I did not want them to learn that this was normal, I would rather have them know that it was not and what the consequences were.

Now I am not telling you to get a D. But maybe if you deep down accept that it is a very probable outcome eventually, then maybe you can start asserting yourself and your needs honestly and without malice and at the same time, don't worry about protecting her feelings.

For my kids, I wish we could have some how worked things out. For myself, I accept that there was no way we ever could have. There was too much power imbalance.