We had some more discussion last night about her "friends" especially when I called at 11:15 to find out where she was because she said she would be home by 10:00. They decided to play mini-golf after dinner and she ran into my cousin and her boyfriend so they had a beer. She said she doesn't know why people don't trust her because she has never done anything wrong. More bullsh**. We had a very lengthy boundry discussion which will probably not go anywhere. She said she needs "disposable" friends to talk to because they don't judge her like her other friends have. Read this to mean that they don't tell her what she is doing is wrong. She made some comment about not being stupid enough to throw it all away and have to go live with her parents so she could have a boyfriend for a month. That was interesting. She also said she knows how good she has it with me now.
I didn't back down from my posistion because I think shortly evolution will eliminate these "friends" from my world. I mean they met her on the premise of a "match" and now she vents to them about her life. That will get old soon. The R has been going very well except for this issue so I plan on shifting focus back to the "good" things. I have made my stance very clear so if she chooses to cross the boundries she will have to leave. I have made strong improvements in myself and those will continue. We communicate better and are relating so much better. She still has a big self-esteem issue which will take time to heal and I think this is a main reason for her "weird" ideas for "finding herself". As I have said before, my W needs gobs of attention and approval. We know some women in town who do this also and she finds them pathetic so why doesn't she see it in herself? Anyway, I probably made it sound like we fought all night but the discussions were actually very level headed and fact based. She practically slept "on" me last night and we made up this morning so I guess I "bumped up" against the line but didn't cross it. I guess that is what it takes to walk that fine, fine line between "doormat" and a**hole. My FIL told me to just ignore her antics but I would like to show my children a more functional way to relate to people. Could be an arrogant attitude to take but I have seen the end results of his "technique" and I couldn't accept that.
Thanks Rayanne and Z for replying. Having wise DBers saying I am doing the right things makes me feel confident that I can do this. It seems that I can tell her most anything if I do it in a calm, non-aggressive tone. And it only took me 12 years to figure that out! My gut tells me we are on the road to success so now I just need to stock up on patience.
I hope I can keep the stress down today because I am golfing with one of my partners and some high end clients today and high stress equals high score for me. My W wants us to golf together on fathers' day. I would love that. We have a dinner party tonight and she wanted to meet me early for a drink. The people at this party make a couple pre-dinner drinks almost mandatory. Can you say "pompous" and "opinionated". Yes, even more than me!
Thank God for this board and the great people here who are helping me save my marriage.
First I must say you are finding out that thing that's so often overlooked on the Beginner's Boards.... that you know you're R better than we do. It seems you've found the "line" and have, as you say, "bumped" it. That's good.
That said, be careful not to bump it too often, or even to cross it. You will from time to time, but with care, you will use that to understand where her "unstated" boundaries are. It's a balancing act. Personal boundaries are important, and each respecting the others is important. I noticed that in close friendships, there are lots of boundarie issues, and they pretty much remain unstated because of the respect between friends, and respect for their personal space and the right they have to make their own decisions. Marriage often causes those "lines" of respect to become blurred by the "one flesh" thing. Possessiveness, ownership and control often cause one spouse to believe they have a right to cross the boundaries. This can cause the other spouse to retreat, and then begins the distance/pursuit dance.
I find it best to state my boundaries and then let it go. It then becomes the spouses choice to respect my boundaries, needs and wishes. Hopefully, in a healthy situations, that respect is present and strong. If that respect is gone, there's little you can to do get it back other than to respect their right to be their own person and give them space. It is possible that they may have to face the responsibilities of their acts, you may enforce those boundaries if you choose, and if it become unbearable to you to have them violated. Then you must realize you will be responsible for the consequences of that enforcement. On goes the dance...
All in all, it sounds great t. Keep up the good work, and the good PMA.
Thanks Z for the good advice. I have surrounded myself with calming, conservative influences in my business life to offset my aggressiveness and my DB friends are doing that for me with my R. Otherwise I would have continued to "cross the line" like I so often did early in the M and pushed and pushed on any issue. Great idea about the "one flesh". I sure felt that way. I think the "respect" issue is a problem for us. I have had very little respect for her in the past because of her actions and even when she improved my respect didn't. Now those tables have turned and her respect for me is slowly returning. That may even be the "key" issue in our relationship. Higher respect would probably bring the trust back to our R faster than focusing directly on the trust itself. We may be on to something here. We'll see what happens from here.
TBONE
I posted on a "newbie" thread yesterday about following what they hear on this board early and often. Easier said than done but important none the less.
This is going to sound really lame to some of you out there but here goes. Sometimes even on good days my thoughts will stray to my W communications and activities with OM. I keep thinking that if she was that close to leaving and she was pursuing an OM while she was still portraying a normal life with me how do I get comfortable again and try to trust completely? Is it just a matter of living it out and letting time do the healing? These flasbacks throw me a little. I had one right before I saw her and was afraid it was going to throw my mood. Anyone else have this "dimensia"? I am having a hard time shaking that "OM" paranoia even though my own confidence is rising. Maybe this is just part of the process of recovering from the WAW syndrome.
Been working on that myself for a coupla years now!
But, this is my issue. Not my W's. Same goes for you.
I think you're right. It's part of the recovery process. You just hafta suck it in and wait it out.
My only advice is... Do not share this insecurity with your W. Do whatever it takes to keep your PMA going - especially when you're with her. She must not know about these feelings.
You're trying to get the "normal" feelings back. By that, I mean for you and for your W.
You have to act normally until your feelings catch up. No matter how long it takes.
Do that, and you've accomplished what you set out to do.
Andy - Thanks for the wise words. I need to tell myself more often that this is a process. I also won't be telling my W about these feelings ever. She knows I think her behavior was completely unacceptable. She only started coming back to me when I took a stand. I fully believe she saw my confrontations as a sign that I was willing to fight for her. My SIL told me that if her H would have stood up to her antics instead of rolling over they wouldn't be D. My W other sister told me that she also challenged her H resolve in their R when she was convinced that the M would not last. These are strong, independent women who seem to want the same qualities in their men. Luckily, only one of us wasn't up to the task. This knowledge was part of what motivated me to stand my ground with my W and not follow normal DB procedure. Also, I don't think my W was nearly as "gone" as she was saying.
Zebra - If you are out there I want to thank you so much for helping me to stop my addiction to snooping. You were so right about how good it feels to not do it. It makes the anxiety drop off dramatically. It also makes it easier to accentuate the positives. I was so gald to hear the new C is working out so well. Can't wait to here about the imminent progress.
I am definitely staying off of the "Infidelity" board from now on. My anxiety gets the best of me when I go there. In fact I am trying to back off completely but I keep picking up such valuable tidbits everyday that are helping me to succeed not just with my W but with my kids, clients, and employees. What is so funny is to see how much better my employees react to me since this all started and I realized the problem wasn't everybody else it was me. Ooh, that one hurt. My hope is that more age brings me a lot more wisdom. God was watching over me when he threw this challenge in my lap.
There's no such thing! DB is nothing more than doing what works and stopping doing what doesn't.
Too many people see a technique - LRT is the prime example - and say, "Hey. I'm desparate. If I do this, my H/W will come running back to me!"
I don't remember who posted it, but it has been referred to as "cookie cutter DBing." Despite the fact that there are many similarities in all of our sits, there are always major differences.
We have to tailor our techniques to our own individual sit.
I wonder if our "renegade" DBing is why we "graduated" to this board. "Cookie cutter" DBing scared me because it seemed too much like being a "doormat" to me. I am not knocking those who are doing it that way at all. It is just that I have always been one to test limits. Absolutely nothing new here except my anxiety is getting better. Instead of expecting the R to regress I am seeing all of the progress that continues to happen. Attitude is everything. I can almost tell now by her voice and actions when she has communicated with one of her "friends". I just say to myself that she is "here" with me and we are enjoying each others' company as much as ever. They are only an issue if I revert to my destructive behaviors. Yes, it could all fall apart tomorrow but everyone can say that, not just us DBers. I am even thinking that I am about to graduate from "Piecing" to "Success stories". I may never hear her say that she has recommitted and I think the first ILY is just going to happen someday (hopefully soon). There won't be any "fireworks" or "drumrolls" it will just happen.
We did some more "family" landscaping last night, even the dog helped. I also got talked into building the kids a monster playset (swings, slide, fort, climbing wall, etc.) this weekend. The whole family unit seems to be functioning better. Thanks again to all that have helped me get this far (especially Zebra and Andy) and if I let this thread die I will still check in on the "Piecers". Have a great weekend.
Your take on cookie cutter DBing is diametrically opposed to mine. This fact really illustrates the dangers of blindly following what your concept, or more particularly of other people’s concept of what DBing is.
In my sit, W felt like a doormat. To this day, I don’t understand why. Pre-bomb, she always said that we cooperated so very well. Everyone who knew us agreed. Imagine my surprise when she called me controlling!
So. From the get-go, I decided to become (in actions) the H and father that I always thought I was.
When I posted this, many wise DBers thought I was being a doormat. Conventional (cookie cutter?) DBing would seem to dictate that I concentrate on myself. Forget about W and work on being a happy person with or without her.
I don't know why, but it seems when you read the book you want to immediately leap to the LRT. Desparation I suppose. But in so many sitches, LRT is more of the same. LRT is the epitome of ignoring you spouse,
Is it?...certainly not my undersatnding of LRT. I dont see "ignore your spouse" wriiten about in the context of LRT in DB.
Incidentally, when I expounded on my ideas of changing my behavior to match my self-image, Mick accused me of “some great original thought.”
So. Are we really renegades? Perhaps we just have a different perception. And maybe, we have a better handle on our own sitch’s than meets the eye.
Progress is good. More "courting" going on which makes me feel like her "boyfriend". I guess that is how it is supposed to be if you are starting over. I saw a few more examples of being able to say almost anything to her if I say it calm and courteously. She has been expecting me to do a ton of things around the house in a short amount of time. I simply told her I was doing all I could and the pace was making me a little "crabby" so don't take it personally. She said she really didn't expect it to all get done and I was doing a great job. That is no where near how it would have gone on the past. I would have barked at her about getting off of my back and she have withdrawn. Much better now.
My outlook is consistently getting better but I am still guarded. This BB has taught me that if I take care of my side of the fence the other side will do the same. It works. She actually wants to have a "meeting" about her business tonight. She also made comments that she now sees how I want to help her and that our strengths are very complimentary to the others. We are "finally" working as a "team". That feels so good. Still no ILY but the peace and harmony is reward enough.
I hope everyone had a great weekend and fathers' day. I am especially appreciative this year.
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