I read recently where this woman said that although she and her H rebuilt their M into something stronger and more loving that it once was, it took her about 10 for her to deal w her personal pain as a bs.
My take on this is that you and your H have that crucial piece of mutual love.
It will take you time to heal. It will lessen and fade.
If you chose to end the marriage because of the intensity of your current pain then your're still gonna hurt for a long long time. Long time.
Plus you'd have to kill off the love you have for this man. And deal w the regret of letting it go.
Matilda, I hurt for you. Please hold on. Please focus on the sweet.
Well, I'm totally frustrated. I just spent 1-1/2 hr pouring my heart out here and lost it all!!
I don't have the strength or time to go into detail of what I was posting earlier, so I'll try to give an edited version.
H and I had OR talk last night. H said he loves me, but not like he used to. He's not certain that he wants to remain married; not sure that he's totally committed to me or OR. This apparently all stems from how he feels about himself and what he's done. He simply cannot (or won't) forgive himself. Doesn't know how. Doesn't deserve it.
He told me it has nothing to do with the OW. He has no feelings for her except disgust. He does not want to be with anyone else. He feels like a failure in life, so how can he be in a loving relationship with anyone.
He says he has no passion or need for physical intimacy right now. He doesn't deserve to feel those things. He doesn't deserve to enjoy those things with me. He feels so totally disgusted with himself for having given in to his lustful feeling for a person whom he knew was no good for him; that he knew he would never want a real relationship with that he has lost all of his passionate feelings. He has no libedo. He doesn't deserve that kind of intimacy with me because he has failed me so miserably.
He wants desparately for his feelings of self-loathe to "go away" so his heart can be open for feeling passion and love again. He is hoping for a miracle. I explained that just hoping for it to be better will not make it happen. He/we need to work hard on it.
He is miserable. I think he enjoys being miserable -- at the very least, he feels he deserves to be miserable. I told him what he's told me in the past, if you want to be happy you have to make the decision to be happy. Right now he's made the decision to be miserable. And because he's miserable, he cannot do the things he knows I need him to do in order for me to heal. So, again, because he can't do those things, he feels he's continuing to hurt me, and that just makes him more miserable. He simply can't stand to see my pain and know he's the cause.
I finally understand how difficult that must be for him. I want so much to make him feel better, and there's just nothing I can do. For him, he wants so much for me to feel better and stop my pain and because he feels he's the cause of all that pain it just makes it a thousand times worse. He feels there's nothing he can do to fix this. That is very frustrating for him.
Talked a little about him leaving. That started a panic attack for him -- chest pains. I know he doesn't want to go, but maybe it's what he needs. Maybe if he's by himself he will realize all that his giving up. He says that he thinks that being on his own would ease the daily pressure of having to face me, but that he knows that that is not the answer for everything that he's feeling. He can't escape his torment. Personally, I think the pressure of being away from us would send him over the edge. But, who knows? Anyway, I told him I didn't want him to think I wanted him to pack up and leave, but that if that was what he felt was what he needed to do that I wouldn't make it difficult for him.
Before going to sleep, I put my hand on his chest and asked him if he felt in his heart that we were over. He took my hand and said, "no, no."
He told me he's amazed at how incredible I've been through all this and, of course, he doesn't deserve it after what he's done. He said if he'd had just an inkling of the ramifications his actions would cause he'd have never gone down that path. He had tears in his eyes when he said it. He says my touch is like a healing, soothing balm to his soul -- for a short time. Then all the thoughts about how he doesn't deserve to feel good, doesn't deserve my love all come back with a vengence.
My friends, my H is in such pain. I know he loves me. I know he wants to feel passion again. I know deep down in his heart he doesn't want us to be over. But I do not know how to help him. He cannot or will not forgive himself.
There is nothing more I can do, I know that. It's all up to him. I will take all pressure off of him. I will not expect anything from him, and then I will not be hurt when I get nothing from him. Maybe then if he sees he's not hurting me anymore he will be able to relax and start to heal himself.
I need to focus solely on myself and my family now. I wish I could remember what made me happy before all this started. Can't for the life of me!!
One interesting thing is that he manages to get up some jealousy where I'm concerned. I mentioned to him one of my friends here (montana) called me "babe" in a post and that I replied that I wished my H would call me that again. What H heard was some guy calling me babe -- "why did he call you that?" Told him that wasn't the point. The point was that I wished he'd call me that again. So, maybe he needs to think there's a possibility of him losing me. I'm pretty sure it would make him crazy about that. I hate playing games, though. And it could be risky in his state of mind. It was just good to know that those feelings of jealousy are still there - ya know. Means his feelings of love for me are still there, just weighted down by all the crap his piled on top of them.
I'd sure like any comments any of you might have about all this. For now I'm just going to act as if we never talked last night. Just act as if everything is going to work out in the end.
Watching the moon phases every night. I'm not going to get caught by the full of the moon this month. I made a promise w our Daughter. I told her that fr here on out everytime I see the full of the moon I will think of her; she will think of me when she sees it. I told her that I needed an overlay and she asked me no questions.
Matilda. These men.
Yours feels remorse and guilt and winds up feeling self-loathing.
Mine doesn't regret his actions and winds up feeling self-loathing.
Michele posted something about desire. Actions cause desire or something like that.
I have a little goal that H will one fine day approach me and signal that he wants to be intimate.
For now, I signal desire so that H will know that I want him; maybe nothing will happen but often we get busy.
We forget for a little while. We weave a little magic. We aren't going near the broken parts of our marriage these days.
I think it might help your H some if he were to think about personal integrity. He lost that w the affair. When he came clean w you he got that back (right?). When he feels self-loathing prehaps you could suggest that he do a personal integrity check.
Son wants puter for game. Sigh. Gotta go!
Your H needs overlays of his bad memories. Our C told Sage that he should overlay scenes fr work w new memories. H is drawing up floor plan to rearrange the office. LOL.
Does he know about acting as-if? He really needs a lesson.
It works in so many places. It helped me out of my depression. It helped me with my R problems.
It even works on sex:
quote:Originally posted by Michele June 06, 2002 08:48 PM onWhat do I do? I have no sex drive.: …Furthermore, you need to know something else about sexual desire. research now tells us that if you're sitting around waiting to that BIG SIGN that you're really lusting for your husband before you have sex, you might wait a lifetime. For many, many people, sexual desire doesn't happen that way. Instead, if they're willing to become sexual even if they're not feeling particularly lusty, the sexual stimulation then turns them on and they DESIRE to continue. I can't tell you how many people have told me that they weren't interested in sex, but once they got started, they actually enjoyed themselves. Desire is now believed to FOLLOW stimulation rather than precede it.
I agree that you can't help him to change his mind. Unless you can educate him. D'ya think he'd be open to that?
Yup, that's me, a real babe, that's me Thanks, Andy. Needed that.
I honestly have no idea what my H is open to. I've explained acting-as-if to him. Sometimes I think that's what he's doing, acting-as-if things were good, because sometimes he does seem like his old self. He just can't keep his demons away long enough to reap the full benefits, however.
Regarding the sex and passion issue, he does initiate intimacy but since having had problems with completing the act it's been less and less that he's initiated. He's always responsive to me when I initiate. I think maybe he is suppressing his libedo out of disgust for where he's allowed himself to go with it.
I wanted to mention that during our discussion last night, I was strangely calm. H even asked what drugs I was on!! I just listened. Sometimes I asked a question, but for the most part I didnt' say a whole lot. A couple of times I did get a little emotional -- it's a girl-thing!! It's hard to hear your H say he's not sure he wants to be married, and it's frustrating because the only reasons he has for not being married is because of how much he hates himself and he needs to stop hurting me and find some peace. He did tell me that he was totally frozen in any decision making regarding OR right now. He's afraid of making the wrong decision and having to live more devastating consequences. I know that feeling.
So, do I just back off completely from any intimate advances? If I initiate I know he will respond, but if he has problems he'll feel like he's failing me yet again. Will it put pressure on him to initiate if I don't for fear of hurting me? Geez, why does this have to be so complicated?
I wonder, when he says he loves me, just not the same as before, is he really trying to tell me he doesn't love me anymore and just can't bring himself to say it straight out? Again, trying to not hurt me anymore. I know he continually asks himself how he could have done the things he's done if he loved me. Maybe the answer he gives himself is that he doesn't love me. Maybe that is why he's so tortured. I don't know. I guess I'm trying to second guess him here, and I know I shouldn't. I should just accept when he says that he does love me even if it's not like before. After all, I don't love him like I did before either. I was hoping together we'd find our way back to that place. Seems like that might not be the case. He's stuck in "I don't deserve" land.
I'm still very calm about this whole thing. I'm not sure why. Maybe because deep down I believe everything will be okay. My little inner voice keeps telling me that he'll find his way out of the hole he's dug for himself. But, then again, maybe I'm just kidding myself.
I havent been around for a while but had time to drop and do some catching up. Im so glad to hear you are staying calm through all this. I, like you, are learning to do the same. It does ease the tension around the household tremendously.
IMHO I believe your H still loves you deeply, he even did while the A was going on. My W told me she never stopped loving me back then, just that the love got kinda lost along the way. I think the same thing applies to your husband also. The love is there it has just been lost for the time being. I know it probably doesnt make you feel any better by hearing this for it didnt me, just offering another way to look at it.
Also Lily said something to me that I re-read often. She said my W had worked through her problems and that part of her journey was over. The rough times Im going through now are my journey, not mine and hers. The future is a journey for both of us, a future without the past brought along with it. My W is there now, at the end of her journey waiting for me to reach her and begin a new one together. To me it seems as if you are nearing the end of your personal journey and waiting on your H to do the same and reach you.
Maybe you could somehow relate this to him, that you ARE there, waiting for him to catch up.
Mattie I pray with all my heart that I and your H both catch up with our beloved spouses, and start that new journey together.
I nteresting Matilda, my H has the same problem sexually as your H since his affair. I thought it was because of prostate problems, but maybe it is more complicated than that. He never had a problem with performance before he slept with her. He tells me he had the same problem with her, but I don't believe him. Is it guilt, or am I the problem? He has had every test for STDs imaginable. It was his idea to do so which makes me feel better! There are days when I am down too, especially because he is so far away and very busy with work.I wish he was home but he won't be for three more weeks.
What is puzzling to me is that we didn't have a problem during his A or for the first 5-6 months after he told me about it. This has just started recently. It seems to me that he's going backwards while I'm going forward.
I guess the reason I'm so calm right now is because I know there is nothing I can do to help him, except exactly what I'm doing -- just loving him and supporting him. If he can't handle what he's done, then he'll have to live with the consequences of that, and those are some pretty nasty consequences. But I am preparing myself. I intend to be happy. I hope eventually my H decides he wants to be happy, too, and we can work together towards that end. But, if not, so be it.
I am separated from my W, but I hope to get back together with her, and let me say that I am REALLY worried about intimacy after we are together again.
I intend to get a testorerone test the next time I have a checkup and get the shots (if I need them) after my W and I are together again.
Also, I intend to swallow Viagra like candy. I was cautious about it while we were together (possibly leading to W's affair), so W said it really didn't do much good.
And, I will wean myself off of Zoloft (which has depressed my libido). Right now I don't need any libido, so the Zoloft is actually doing me good on two fronts -- the other one being the more-or-less mellow feeling I have.
![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon}
Thanks, Andy. Needed that.