The counselor said that living with deceit is not good and it is not healthy for me to ignore it, but more importantly she was curious why I am able to ignore it at all costs.
Basically what came from that is that my whole life I have been keeping family secrets... from my father's alcholism (and other abuses) to what my H is doing.
I see now that my Mom ignored much of what was going on in her marriage and in ours lives.
I told her that I want to face the truth, but that I want to keep my marriage and she said that might be a fantasy that cannot happen.
Is any of this making sense at all? As painful as it is for me to remember things, I want to be honest here so I will try to answer any questions ask of me.
Me 54 DS19 and DS17 Married 06/1989 Divorced 01/2011
Ok, while you ponder that, I'll post my first reaction to your post. Mind you, us lay-people trying to second guess trained therapists is a bit sketchy but...
Like I said, she seemed to be VERY agressive with you. I am worried that she is one of the "not so pro-marriage" therapists that are out there. My C and many others believe that there ARE certain personal sacrafices that can be made in the name of marriage while there are many others who feel that somehow marriage is inherently filled with evil and steals the souls of those entered into it...or at least that's what they SEEM to believe.
The hard part for you, and even harder for us, is to judge her motive for telling you these things. Therapy is not exactly a transparent thing. She MAY be trying to prod you into action by just telling you something she KNOWS will get you going...in ANY direction. She may not necessarily think your marriage is not going to work out but as I think I said in the beginning of all this, your MARRIAGE is not the most important issue you need to work on with her and if she insists that it is, well...
I just think there are probably PLENTY of personal issues you could deal with before getting to your "fantasy" world. She may be right, but then again, I bet she'd say the same about me too and I assure you, I am in no fantasy world. I am simply CHOOSING to live the way I do, tolerate the things I do and love my W unconditionally, all things that SOME therapists would have a BIG problem with.
I am NOT saying I think she's bad at all, just curious as to what might have made her react so strongly as to suggest you don't come back unless you saw things her way.
Ok, we cross-posted but some of what I said applies...now to what you just posted...
Quote: The counselor said that living with deceit is not good and it is not healthy for me to ignore it, but more importantly she was curious why I am able to ignore it at all costs.
In MY OPINION ONLY, this C sounds decidedly NOT with the DB program. She is all about the individual's health and not about the health of the marriage. Also, as I pointed out before, CHOOSING to ignore something, or just put off dealing with it is NOT the same as denial. Denial is just pretending it doesn't exist, which is NOT what DB suggests we do.
Quote: Basically what came from that is that my whole life I have been keeping family secrets... from my father's alcholism (and other abuses) to what my H is doing.
Ok, I get this somewhat. You have a pattern of keeping these things in the dark. From that perspective, I can see where she would be concerned but not so much as to react to this...
Quote: I told her that I want to face the truth, but that I want to keep my marriage...
with this...
Quote: ...she said that might be a fantasy that cannot happen.
Ok, it's one thing to have someone face the possibility that the marriage may not work out, but calling it a fantasy is REALLY harsh in my opinion and to me (remember, I have NO training, and have only ever been to one therapist in my life) shows that she does not value marriage very much, or think it worth much work at all.
There are a LOT of people out there, you probably have more than a few of them in your circle of friends and family, who would say that once your H cheated, it was over, you should kick him out and never speak to the bastard again.
It's not that they aren't well-meaning, just like I'm sure your C is, but they are only concerned about you and not your marriage.
Quote: As painful as it is for me to remember things, I want to be honest here so I will try to answer any questions ask of me.
Ok, that all said, I will ask you this question to follow up on what you said to C and she to you; ARE you facing the truth or are you in denial? Is the fantasy she thinks you have that somehow you can save your marriage, or does she think you are in complete denial about the danger your marriage is in?
IF it is denial, then fine, she has a right to challenge you. IF it is simply that you believe there is hope, then how dare she take that from you!
Quote: Ok, that all said, I will ask you this question to follow up on what you said to C and she to you; ARE you facing the truth or are you in denial? Is the fantasy she thinks you have that somehow you can save your marriage, or does she think you are in complete denial about the danger your marriage is in?
IF it is denial, then fine, she has a right to challenge you. IF it is simply that you believe there is hope, then how dare she take that from you
GH I honestly do not know if I am choosing not to face the truth at this moment or if I am in denial.
I can tell you that I am totally 200% committed to my marriage and nothing a counselor or anyone says could change that for me. But I do want to learn to deal with issues that need to be dealt with in order to be healthy.
Me 54 DS19 and DS17 Married 06/1989 Divorced 01/2011
Quote: GH I honestly do not know if I am choosing not to face the truth at this moment or if I am in denial.
Ok, well then how about this. Why not list the things, in a numbered list, that you THINK your C is saying are a fantasy, or that you are in denial about.
Quote: I can tell you that I am totally 200% committed to my marriage and nothing a counselor or anyone says could change that for me. But I do want to learn to deal with issues that need to be dealt with in order to be healthy.
Good for you in terms of the commitment! In terms of wanting to learn how to "deal" with issues to be health, well that's a little more tricky. I don't think there's a psychologist out there that wouldn't say that most of us here are doing some pretty UNhealthy things by DBing but we choose to do those things because we have the greater good of our marriage at heart. We are willing to risk TEMPORARY and VOLUNTARY pain to get to a place that will be MUCH better for us AND our spouses, knowing all along that we may very well get to the end without a marriage to save.
That's why the attitude of the C is VERY important. MY C, as I have said, is actually Imago trained and DOES recoil sometimes when I tell her some of my "DB" ideas about things. In the end though, she supports my efforts to save my marriage and knows that since I am choosing to do these things and not blaming my W, or playing the victim here, I will probably be ok in the end.
If your C is going to attack you every-time you do something that may be personally detrimental, i.e. "allow" him to see OW, then I think you will find it hard to integrate your therapy with DB. If, on the other hand, you can explain that DB is just a means to an end and a set of conscious choices made to TRY to save the marriage, but most of all, to save US from the character flaws we so badly want to change, then I think you have a chance to have your C be a GREAT resource in your efforts.
I wish you luck in this. I think I had a LOT of luck in finding my C and while she's not perfect by any stretch, I have found her to be very helpful. I wish the same for you.
That your C would consider your hopes and dreams for the future of your M a fantasy interested me. When I look at what this could mean, I see the fact that you are the only one in the M now, therefore, the projection of intent into the future is yours alone. In fact, any attempt at looking into the future is fantasy - no matter how grounded it may be. Perhaps the C is trying to get you to recognize it as such, and not live as if it were - because your expectations might be leading you down an unhealthy path. The only thing you can really do is be open right now, and plan to be in the future, to a new relationship with the same person, without preconcieved ideas about what the R will look like. I think this is a healthy perspective. We can't look into the future of our M any more than WASs can look into the future of their FANTASY relationships. I know this is not exactly a parallel, but I think you know what I mean here.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
While I agree with you, I think it's semantics. C could have used any other word but chose fantasy, a word that has a connotation of foolishness and denial. Would C say that it was a fantasy of she said she didn't think her marriage would be saved? I think not. THAT would probably be unknowable at best, a firm acceptance of the likely outcome at worst.
Again, I agree that C may have been trying to open her eyes to the POSSIBILITY of the end of the marriage, but to suggest that having hope for reconciliation is fantasy seems a bit unnecessary.
This is why it's hard to try to second guess a therapist. They know what their intentions are and we don't.
Quote: I told her that I want to face the truth, but that I want to keep my marriage and she said that might be a fantasy that cannot happen.
Well, from this - which isn't very explicit at all - it could be that the C thinks in order to continue the M, a certain amount of denial is necessary. The fantasy might be facing truth AND continuing the M. You know that almost ALL Cs see patients as more sick as they actually are? In fact, clinical studies have been performed where psych students have been planted in institutions and have been "diagnosed" with multiple problems, despite the fact that they were "perfectly healthy" in a different environment.
I didn't really get that the C thought idea of reconciliation was fantasy - and that would REALLY be unusual for a C to say.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
