"I'll think about it tomorrow!"

[healedbutscarred]

Matilda...do you ever wish you could get inside your H's head sometime just to see what he is thinking? I do but then maybe I'd find out I didn't really want to be there !! I think my H also was doing a lot more "loving" after the A to show me he really loved and desired me. And I needed it!! I also think that I needed to show him that I really loved and desired him too because we had both been so unhappy for so long and I know he was having some of the same doubts and fears I was having. Only thing was he decided to try and find answers with AP and I didn't !! Anyway.... from what I read and hear on talk shows,the average couple makes love 2 times a week!! And it decreases with age so they say. So I figure we are way above average especially for a couple in their mid 50's!! I know what you mean by not wanting to be the one to "bring the OW into bed with you". That was one of my biggest fears when I discovered the A and we were getting our PR back on track. I did manage to keep her out during the times we were making love but sometimes afterward I would find myself wondering and "comparing"...NOT A GOOD THING TO DO!! I don't do that anymore thank goodness!! I look at it this way...HE HAD SEX WITH THE WH**E and HE MAKES LOVE TO ME!!!! In fact he said it himself..he said that men have this ability to separate SEX and LOVE and women can't. He says that men can have sex with a woman and not love her (which is the way it was with the XOW) and they make love to the woman they love. Men....guess they really are from Mars !! You just keep going the way you are and things will just keep getting better and better!! I know you can do it...you have already come a long way!! I have all kinds of faith and confidence in you!!
pfroglady

[ANS]

quote:Originally posted by matilda:

Poor guy can't win for losing. What goes through my mind now is that he doesn't desire me as much as he once did…

Maybe he does, Mattie. I know from my own experience that with the turmoil I’ve gone through with my sit, I just don’t know how to act anymore. Think your H may be in the same boat?

Seems like your ensuing conversation would indicate that he is.

Maybe he is scared. You say you’re getting nit-picky. Always on the lookout for babysteps. He’s picking up on these vibes, Mattie. And, he’s following your lead.

This is leading to a lot of mixed signals – in both directions.

I guess maybe it’s time for you to be a little less intense. Live in the moment, and when you start to analyze… think about it tomorrow.

I guess what you’re shooting for right now is to feel at ease. And for that easy feeling to be natural. Like it used to be.

It won’t feel natural when you’re trying sooooooooooooo hard for it to happen.

Andy

[lily]

matilda,

my H was talking about his lack of desire for me last night! so wierd how small this world can seem at times.

Hope you're doing alright!

[ANS]

This lack of desire thing seems to be inundating the boards lately.

Sheeeesh!!!

I guess it happens a lot. It's also such a personal thing that it's even hard to share with your spouse.

The good news is that it seems like most of the posts show that people are discussing it with their spouse.

Honest (but not hurtful) discussion of such intimate things can't be bad.

Andy

[matilda]

Lack of desire is one thing that I'm pretty sure is not my H's problem. We did talk about that.

The problem touches on what Lily was asking the other day. H can't quite seem to get "there" in order to complete the process (yes, this is embarassing. I hope you understand what I'm talking about). Apparently at some point he starts thinking about what I'm thinking about (sheesh!) interfer with his own pleasure. Thoughts such as: what is W thinking about? Is she thinking about the A. Is she picturing me with OW? Is she thinking about what a scum-bag I am. Is she thinking about how much pain I've caused her? He also thinks how I'd be better off without him, and then gets scared that I'll start thinking that way, too. None of this leads to sucessful love-making. And then, of course, he feels like a failure again and the cycle goes round and round.

MC mentioned last week that the consequences of one's sins last so much longer than anyone can imagine, and that the affects spread out to reach areas people never even imagined. So true.

I am sad this morning because of where my H's actions have left us. I am resentful that for a few stolen moments that made him "feel good" I am left with dealing with the ramifications of his actions possibly for months or years. My ego was already battered -- now it is shattered.

Mattie

[lily]

Chin-up Matilda!

Matilda, right now at this moment I feel very close to your H.

Wierd. He is aware that you hold onto the past and fears that you will end it.

I am aware that H is in the part of the process in which he could stay or go.

It's a scary place to be.

If H knew he felt love for me and needed to ride out these feelings I sure would feel better.

If you knew you felt love for your H then it would reassure him.

Now-right now- my H has no thoughts about my need to be reassured that this process is going to end up w a strong R for us. He cannot seem to empathize w me.

Do you feel thoughts of reassuring your H that you will find your way to peace about this pain and that you will be free to be all you can be w him. Do you empathize w him

Remember,too, that the other part of me hurts so much for you as well.

I pray this everyday for my H. I will now pray it for you.

Mattie. God Bless you and keep you. God smile upon you and be gracious to you. God lift his countenance upon you and give you peace. In Jesus' name. Amen.

[matilda]

I do love my H, Lily. Of that, I'm sure. I do still wonder, though, if love is enough. I've told my H how much I love him. I've told him I can't imagine a future without him. He tells me I'd be better off without him. He says it would drive him crazy if that were my decision, but that is, after all, what he deserves. I tell him I'm the only one who can make the judgement of how I'd be better off.

I have had thoughts of maybe not being able to live with this. I have had thoughts that too much pain has been inflicted. I have had thoughts that I may never fully trust him again -- never fully trust in his love for me again. Maybe somehow he's picking up on those thoughts? Maybe he knows if the roles were reversed and I'd been the one to have an A that these are the thoughts he'd have.

We did have a conversation yesterday dealing with needs being met. There are some things I've mentioned to him for a long time now that I "need" from him. He cannot seem to "remember" to do these things. I interpret that as him not loving me enough to make my needs important enough to remember. I mentioned to him that I think I've been doing a pretty good job at meeting his needs since well before the bomb. He agreed. He says he has everything he wants and needs from me.

I tell him I get hurt and resentful when I put so much effort into making sure his needs are taken care of, yet he can't seem to "remember" something as simple as putting on music in our bedroom instead of turning on the t.v. , or any other small little thing during the day that means "I'm thinking about you" BEFORE getting into bed at night. I'm sure you know what I mean. The little affectionate things that just show intimacy and love without sexual overtones.
Bottomline, I feel he's still so wrapped up in himself and how he feels that he can't respond to my feelings and desires at all. He's so burdened by what HE's done and how HE feels so incredibly worthless that he isn't able to understand that maybe if he'd stop thinking about himself long enough to try to ease my pain, that that will in turn help him in the long run also.

Oddly enough, as I've said in prior posts, it may just be that the demise of our R will not be because I can't "get over it," but because my H can't get over it!!

I'm backing off big time this weekend. No pressure. Just friendship. We'll see what happens.

Have a great weekend.

Mattie

[healedbutscarred]

Matilda...Oh,how I wish there was something I could say or do that would help you in your situation!! Your H has BIG PROBLEMS!! I honestly thought that the C was helping him. Some of your posts seemed to indicate that he was beginning to "get the picture"! I believe you when you say that it won't be the fact that you can't "get over the A" that causes your R to come to an end but the fact that HE can't "get over it"!! Doesn't it make you wonder why a man that is handling his guilt so poorly could have ever done what he did in the first place? The guilt is "eating him alive" and he really needs professional help!! I honestly think you are doing everything you can to show him that you have forgiven him and you are trying to "put the A in the past". I honestly can't think of anything else you can do to help him! Did your H always do all the "little things" you mentioned before the A? My H has never been what you would call "romantic". Oh,every now and then he would surprise me and he can be romantic when he tries. So basically that hasn't changed much. I think that he is trying a little harder since the A but not as much as I'd like!! I really do understand how you feel when you say you seem to be putting more effort into the R than your H is. I feel the same way sometimes!! Isn't it strange that we were the ones hurt and yet we seem to be the ones trying the hardest to make things better? Your situation is different from mine in the fact that your H can't seem to forgive himself and work on "forgetting". Is he still going to C? Sounds like he really needs it!! I know it has to be really hard on you to put up with the way he is acting on top of trying to work on "getting over it" yourself!! But please,Matilda,try to hang in there with him!! I know you love this man in spite of what he has done and in spite of the way he is acting now. I will keep you and your H in my prayers!! Come here whenever you need to scream,cry,cuss and look for support and comfort!! I am here for you,I am in your corner and I am pulling for you and your R!! Hope your week end goes well...I'll be thinking about you!! pfroglady

[matilda]

Hi, Pfroglady. Thanks for always being there for me.

No, I don't really think my H did the little things I'm talking about before his A. I've really tried hard to look back over my M and remember how things were, and he really isn't that much different than before. However, these are things we've talked about over the years so that I didn't feel like all he wanted was sex. I guess he still doesn't get it. That worries me, cuz if he doesn't get it I'm afraid the cycle will start all over again.

I don't mean to make him out to be an orge, either. My H loves being with me, loves spending time with me. He has always bought very thoughtful and generous gifts for all the special occasions in our life. He has never forgotten an anniversary or a birthday, etc. He always has a wonderful card picked out for me. He always makes sure special days are just that -- very special. I'd just like for every day to be a little more special, ya know what I mean. I think I'm asking too much of him right now. I should be happy with what I have -- after all that's quite a lot. But, like I said above, I think in the aftermath of an A a little more needs to be done.

As I write that, I think back to just a month post-bomb. H wanted to take me for a little get-away (Hawaii!!) for a week. One day he was at a meeting where the OW was. He called me after having only been there for an hour and said he was leaving early. He didn't really need to be there, and he couldn't stand being anywhere near her if it wasn't absolutely necessary for work. So he left and went to Victoria's Secret and bought me a few goodies for our trip to Hawaii. He also surprised me with a ruby and diamond bracelet. He said the bracelet was to commemorate our first trip back to Hawaii since we were married there 18 years ago. I think it was a token of his heart- felt sorrow and regret for the pain he'd caused me.

There have been other things like that along the way. Everything I've asked him to do (like going to MC - which he totally hates to do), he's done without complaint. I really believe I'm nit-picking. I need to look at all the positives (funny, same thing I told him the other night!). The other stuff will come later.

The MC cannot quite understand why H is still refusing to forgive himself. Right now he says once I'm (Matilda) better, H will be able to start letting go of the guilt and start forgiving himself. I don't know. This guy can really carry it.

This weekend we went to see "Enough" with Jennifer Lopez. The H in the movie is having an A (multiple), and hits his W. When JLO first discovers the A she went through and said much of the same stuff I did. I could feel H's misery. After the movie, he brought it up on his own. He said he wanted to run out of the theater. I didn't reply. I just let the subject drop. I hope he's learning that he can open up to me about some of his feelings and I'm not going to jump all over him and bring up a big discussion about the A.

This weekend has been very good. I do see a rather long road ahead of us in our recovery, though. I guess that's okay. I've just always been such a "want it right now" person. I want things right and good again right now!! That's just not gonna happen -- not for him, not for me. Because, of course, I still have my bad times (much less frequent and much better at handling them now).

Well, gotta go. H made coffee and wants to snuggle on the cough and watch T.V. Sounds good to me.

Matilda

[healedbutscarred]

Matilda...I am proud of you!! Sounds like you handled the "after the movie" comment by your H VERY WELL!! I think you are right...if he sees that when he feels the need to share his thoughts and feelings about the A,you aren't going to fall apart or "throw it in his face",he will begin to be more open and maybe start to forgive himself. You are a smart lady!! Keep up the good work!! I know how much you love this guy (even when he's not so lovable !!)and how badly you want your marriage to work and be stronger!! Your H will soon realize that if you loved him enough to forgive him for having the A, you love him enough to stand by him even when he is "beating himself up" over what he did!! It seems that I am the one who made the biggest effort to make changes in our R. My H did make changes,don't get me wrong,it's just that I was the one to begin initiating all the little romantic gestures. He seemed to enjoy them and he started to initiate some of his own. My H and I had a talk the other day about "being romantic" and "doing little things". He was taking me out to dinner Saturday night and told me I had all day to think about where I wanted to go. I told him that it would be romantic if he thought about someplace I loved going to but we haven't been to in awhile and surprised me by taking me there. Guess he must have thought about what I had said because when he came home from playing golf he got ready to go and when we were leaving he said" this may not be the most romantic place to take you on a date but I know it's somewhere you love going to and the last time we went there it was too crowded to get in"!! Sometimes you just have to "lead" them in the right direction !! Yesterday he had to go into work and then he was going to go out to the club to play in a golf "scramble". He surprised me by coming home at 11:00 and asking me to go with him!! I took my things so I could go to the pool while he played but he wanted me to ride around with him while he played!! I really enjoyed it and told him so several times!! He wasn't sure that I'd really enjoy myself....men!! There had a picnic on the patio after golf but we weren't hungry then so we just sat around,had a couple of drinks and chatted with some folks. Then he surprised me by taking me to one of my favorite restaurants for dinner!! Needless to say I told him how specail he had made the day for me and I showed him my appreciation when we got home !!!! I told him this morning that being romantic means more than flowers and candy. Being romantic is little surprises for no reason,holding hands when you are out in public,and other "little" things like that. I hope he is getting the picture!! You hang in there!! I know sometimes it is really hard for you to put up with your H when he acts like he does. I'll bet you'd like to try and "knock some sense into his head" sometimes !! But you have this deep love for him and it will see you through the hard times!! You keep on showing him unconditional love and he'll soon get on the right track!! My "money's" on you Matilda - you are WINNER!!!! pfroglady