Mattie...you are doing all you can. Everyone is right when they tell you that he created the hell he is living in. He knows that he caused the situation and whatever happens because of what he did is in your hands. The big thing is I don't think he has forgiven himself yet and until he does he is going to live in fear that at anytime you may tell him to "hit the road". All you can do is show him everyday that you loved him enough to forgive him or he'd have been gone a long time ago!! You are right when you say he only heard what he wanted to hear but that is not your problem,it's his and he needs to really listen when you talk. Men....sometimes they can be so dense!! But what can you do? My favorite expression is " Men,can't live with them and they are too big to flush down the toilet"!! Ya gotta love the big lugs though don't you? Seriously,it's too bad that you have made such great headway and your H seems to have gotten stuck and can't seem to get passed what he has done. He is going to have to get passed the point he seems to have stopped at,forgive himself and then maybe he can move forward again. He is the one stopping the healing process,not you. See what I'm getting at? You just keep on loving him and sooner or later he'll get the message that in spite of himself,you love him and you plan on keeping him!!
I love what you said -- show him that "inspite of himself, you still love him." Boy, doesn't that say it all about all of our wayward H's. We love 'em inspite of themselves. Just love that!!
I've been making myself nuts over this. Totally over-analyzing things -- why isn't he doing this or that? Why did he do/say this or that? I'm stopping right now. It's his issue. I can't change his perception of himself. Maybe a little loving detachment is what is needed here. I'll just let him know I'm here for him, but I won't put any pressure on him to meet my unfulfilled needs right now. They really aren't really significant anyway. Just things I'd like sometime in the future. Right now, at this very moment, I'm pretty satisfied. I'm pretty happy. It's sure taken a long time to get to this place. I'm gonna relax and enjoy it for a while.
Oh, and I passed my hormone test -- which means, this week when my hormones went wacky and I got my migraine and usual emotional stuff that goes with it, it did NOT cause me to spiral out of control regarding the A!! I did have a moment of tearfulness. I did have a moment of anger. I did NOT mention the A to my H. I did NOT bring up any unpleasantness at all.
This is a biggie, cuz every other time I had the hormonal highs it would send me into a tailspin of recriminations about with A with my H. I am healing, gang. It's taken such a very long time to get here, but I am actually healing. 7 months ago I would never have thought it was possible. Thank you, God. Thank you, all my dear friends on this board.
I hope my H can see my healing. I hope he can believe it when I tell him I've forgiven him. Maybe then he'll start forgiving himself.
Great to hear you didnt let things get out of control. After all, you did tell me you had an excuse to do so . Im glad you didnt spiral into that tailspin that you spoke of. This gives me hope that maybe in a few more months I will be as far along as you are now. Hey, I need something positive to keep my eyes on ya know?
I think none of us are very good at hearing what's being said to us. I had a good exchange about that going on one of my old threads ( Struggling with Perceptions (Page 3) ) The way I see it, sometimes we hear what we want to hear, but in most cases, we hear what we expect to hear. I think that’s kinda where your H is at. He can’t believe that you really want to stay with him, so he’s searching for clues to support this. He’s trying to mentally prepare for the worst. This mental exercise only contributes to his own personal hell, but there’s nothing you can do about it, and not much he can do about it either. He’s scared. Pure and simple.
A while back, my W took exception to my references to her MLC. She was surprised when I pointed out that I had never referred to it. It was she that talked about it. Our minds play tricks on us when we make assumptions about what another person is thinking.
I know you where joking about throwing him out, but just to illustrate my point, if you did throw him out, it would only skew his assumptions even more. What could he assume about your actions? He’d have to assume that you wanted him out. The way I see it, all you can do is continue to show compassion and love. The lack of mixed signals will gradually change his perception, and after a time, his expectations will not be of the worst case scenario.
quote:Originally posted by pfroglady: All you can do is show him everyday that you loved him enough to forgive him or he'd have been gone a long time ago!!
Here’s a thought. What do you think he would think if you came right out and told him that????
I know actions speak louder than words, but there’s so much truth in that statement. It’s irrefutable! There was never, and still isn’t any reason for you not to kick him out except that you love him and want your R to work. If he still doesn’t believe that statement, you can challenge him to find any other reason why you’d stick with him.
Well, I just realized I titled my original thread and thread #2 incorrectly (Getting Over it, and Still Getting Over It.) I realize now there is no "getting over it." Not really. My threads would be been more correctly titled "Learning to Live with it," which is what I'm trying to do. Sometimes I'm successful, sometimes not.
For almost two weeks I was feeling so good. I was able to put off thinking about things and live in the moment with H. I didn't do so well last night or today. Just thoughts about the A that I couldn't push away no matter what I told myself. What is the matter with me? I'm so tired of feeling like this.
We were at MC's Friday afternoon, and I was feeling so great and things were going so well with us. MC said he didn't want to see us for two weeks. H and I felt like we were seeing the light at then end of the tunnel. Now, here I am again feeling like shit. I haven't mentioned anything to H except last night he asked me what was wrong, was I having bad thoughts? I said, no, just sad thoughts. He didn't ask anymore questions, and I didn't offer any information. So, in that respect I'm still doing fairly well -- not bringing up the A to him.
Well, I guess I can't really expect to feel good all the time. It's just been so long of feeling miserable that when I have a few good days strung together it's very disappointing to go back to feeling miserable. However, in true optomistic form, this too shall pass. I just need to write it down here and get a little hand-holding from you guys so I can try to keep these feelings away from H.
When your're feeling like that try reaching within you to nurture the little you. I've done that a couple of times (C suggested it). It soothes. I sort of see it as the way I would comfort my child if I knew her heart was hurting.
I think that I've been "own my own" emotionally for about 2 years now. Not knowing that my H felt burdened I'd just load more and more on him via complaining about night job or the day care antics . Rarely would I dis him because I just didn't want to make waves anymore.
H heard me respond "I haven't had a safety net for a long time now." This was two weeks ago. That was when she told me that it was up to me to fulfill my emotional needs, not my H or my children (OR ANY OTHER MAN but that doesn't need to be said).
I never want to see that dead look in my H's eyes again; the one when I was in such pain and wanted him to wrap me in his arms and tell me he was sorry and it was a big mistake and he didn't love her and ---all the stuff your H says to you.
Matilda, I think it very brave that you didn't 'dump' on your H this last time. I havn't figured out what in the world I'm gonna due the next time the roller coaster grabs me. H refers to those (he has only been exposed to 2 of them) as the 'negative' aspect of our R.
Emotional dumping just isn't productive.
You were right when-on my thread-you advised me to BE the woman my H would want. He doesn't want me to know the nitty-gritty of his R w the ow.
I read Deida on the net. The one I read last night had to do with . . .Affairs and other stuff. One thing it mentioned was that women have a negative flow if they feel unloved; men if they feel burdened. You and your H. Me and mine.
I encourage you to strive to stay in the moment w your H. . .keep your chin-up so to speak. Feel his love and if you can keep away from the urge to dump then it will lighten the burden he's carrying these days. More love can flow from him to you. You, with more and more love surrounding you--filling you-- will feel the need to give your emotional burden to your H less and less.
In my sit, I have to let the light of this love Deida refers to fill me, surround me, buoy me. That will draw my H to me. I have to embrace this. For me to do an emotional dump will just burden him and negate all the DB that I do between roller coaster rides.
Matilda, I hope that there is a nugget of love left in my H for me. I just remembered something. I was going to the store Sunday and was doing the C ya thing. H was at end of hall and as I said 'bye he said this kind of gutteral ILY. I was outside and felt the urge to return. I went to him and said "don't say you didn't mean that, ok?" He nodded his head in agreement. He said the same gutteral kind of ILY right before by surgery in February. There has to be something there buried under layers of the changed perspective of me that he formed in order to break from me. The DB I do helps to change the perspective of me to a different one. One that has elements of the me he fell in love with and elements of the changed me that are positive and non-burdening. This is making sense to me, pardon me for doing my pondering on your thread.
Anyway, Matilda. I want you to be happy. I don't want you to let yourself go and dip into that trough of bitterness. I want you to remember that that trough contains emotional acid. I want to break my emotional need to go to it and have my anger and negativism fueled. I would rather be happy (in my R) than right.
They have a Society of Separated Wives that I think Treesa has posted about at times. We need to think of a gutsey name for us.
MATILDA!! SO VERY SAD TO HEAR YOU HAD A BAD DAY!!!! SURE HOPE YOU ARE BETTER TODAY!!!! I signed on this morning to catch up on everyone since I missed yesterday and was going to post on my thread. I saw you had posted so wanted to see what was happening with you and saw you had a bad time. You helped me so much through my bad time last week so hope I can do the same for you today!! Remember what you told me...YOU ARE HUMAN!! You are going to have these "set backs". The trick is to not let them discourage you!! Don't let them get a hold on you and spoil the progress you have made!! You have made such great progress and I know how it can "blow your mind" when these things happen!! Believe me I know that you can feel that you have taken 2 steps forward and then you go back a step!! But keep your eye on the "PRIZE"... a happy,loving relationship with the man you love with all your heart!! He was all too human and he messed up but HE LOVES YOU!!! Always keep in mind that it is "you" he loves and depends on!! You can get through this Matilda...I know you can...it was just a minor set back. I hope you are finding out (like I am) that they happen less and less and are weaker everytime they happen. I am thinking about you and will say an extra prayer that you are feeling better today and ready to "take on the world"!! Have a good day and I am here for you.....thank you for being there for me!! pfroglady
Well, we did have a little "talk" last night. Things are different concerning our love life. How can they not be? I don't necessarily like "different," but funny thing is that after awhile different becomes normal. Another funny this is that I didn't necessarily like "normal" before the bomb. I guess we'll find our zone again someday.
We seem to be a little wary with each other -- each one trying to read the other's mind about what to do or not do. If I don't seem interested (hardly ever!), H backs away without even attempting. That NEVER happened in the past. He would always try to get me "in the mood." That, of course, used to bug me big time. Now, that he doesn't do it it bugs me big time. Poor guy can't win for losing. What goes through my mind now is that he doesn't desire me as much as he once did, or as much as he desired the OW. But then in my logical mind I remember how even during his A he always wanted me. That never changed because of the OW. I also know (yes, I do believe him) that he would only be with the OW about once a month -- so I don't think his desire for her was that strong.
So we talked. Of course, H says he wants me as much as ever, but, yes, things have changed and he doesn't feel he has the RIGHT to pursue me or ask me for what he wants, etc. He also says age is a factor for him. He's just slowing down. (He's also been tearing up the tile kitchen floor and replacing it all by himself. I guess that could make him a little tired, huh?)
So after he explained these things to me I asked him, "Do you still have feelings for OW? Is that why you're a little distant from me?" (H doesn't think he's being distant. He told MC he thinks we're closer than we've ever been!) H replied, "No, absolutely not." I asked him, "Are you sure there's nothing there?" H replied, "I think I hate her. Well, maybe not hate, but I don't even like her." Pause, then "No, I hate her." After that he pulled me over on top of him and everything was fine again.
I am really nit-picking things apart here. Maybe I'm DB'ing too much. Looking at everything as baby steps, or as having secondary/hidden meaning. I know what you mean, Lily, I don't need to emotionally dump on my H. That brings us back to square one. Andy said a couple of posts up that he thinks my H is scared. H used that exact word last night. He's scared of a possible future without me and the kids. I've tried telling him that if I didn't want to work this out he'd have been gone a long time ago. I just need his help sometimes, ya know?
Anyway, I really am doing much better today. And that's a blessing because not that long ago the down side of the roller coaster ride would last for much longer periods of time. So I really do think my heart is healing.
Yes, Pfroglady, I remember what I said to you about being human. And I have no doubt that things are getting better. I just hate being dragged back into it all when I've been feeling so good for a while. I wonder if I will ever be able to think about it without my feelings being so intense. Hard to imagine.
Lily, I KNEW you're H still loved you. Yeah, so maybe it's buried way down under a pile of crap, but that pile is slowing being chipped away at by you and your loving DB'ing. Maybe next time you catch him saying it you should walk up to him with a big smile and just say, "I know you do."
Matilda,for a while I would have these feelings that whenever my H was too tired or didn't feel like making love it was because of me. He tried to reassure me that it wasn't me but him. Then I would think it was him because he had little desire for me and he still wanted the OW. And of course I would obcess about "was she better in bed","did she have a better body",etc., etc..... I told him of these fears and bless him,he tried so hard to make me understand that sometimes he is just too tired physically or mentally and sometimes he just isn't "in the mood" because (as he puts it) "he's getting older and he just doesn't have the desire as much as he used to". It took me a long time but I am better at sensing when he is really tired when he gets home and I can pretty much tell when he isn't really feeling "in the mood" and I try things to "get him in the mood" But I no longer feel that thoughts of the OW are in his mind and I no longer think that it is because of her when we don't make love. That is just one of the things that you have to really work hard on and it does get better with time (you are probably sick of hearing me say that!!). I am fortunate in that my H loves to cuddle and snuggle!! I hear a lot of women complaining that their H's aren't affectionate that way or they don't like to just cuddle up (especially at night). I am a "snuggler"!! I am also one of those women that would make love everyday if H wanted too!! Can't help it.....guess I am a sex maniac !!!! Anyway,I am content with the amount of loving I get and I am happy to just be in my H's arms when I go to bed at night!! Sex isn't everything and I realize that because the love making has slowed down a little doesn't mean that he loves me any less or desires anyone else. It just took me awhile to convince my brain !! He assures me that I am satisfying ALL his wants,needs,desires and fantasies!! He's taking REAL GOOD CARE of mine too !!
I knew my H wasn't thinking about her or desiring her. I guess I just wanted to hear it again. I like getting that reassurance once in a while. I won't ask him again, though. I don't need to. and I don't want to be the one to put her there in bed with us.!
I guess when I really stop to think about it, things are just pretty much getting back to normal in the intimacy department. For the first couple of months after the bomb our love life was a little frenzied . I think H was trying to prove something to me -- prove how much he loved me and wanted me. I guess I really needed that kind of proof during that time. Now, that things are returning to normal (and I think 4-5 times a week is actually above normal), I'm starting to second-guess things. I just need to relax. Things are good.
![[Roll Eyes]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif){kind=icon}
But what can you do? My favorite expression is " Men,can't live with them and they are too big to flush down the toilet"!! Ya gotta love the big lugs though don't you? ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon}
Seriously,it's too bad that you have made such great headway and your H seems to have gotten stuck and can't seem to get passed what he has done. He is going to have to get passed the point he seems to have stopped at,forgive himself and then maybe he can move forward again. He is the one stopping the healing process,not you. See what I'm getting at? You just keep on loving him and sooner or later he'll get the message that in spite of himself,you love him and you plan on keeping him!! ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon}
![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif){kind=icon}
And I have no doubt that things are getting better. I just hate being dragged back into it all when I've been feeling so good for a while. I wonder if I will ever be able to think about it without my feelings being so intense. Hard to imagine.![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon}
!! He assures me that I am satisfying ALL his wants,needs,desires and fantasies!! He's taking REAL GOOD CARE of mine too